I am referring specifically to the newer Defender Puma models. They are fantastic, and I can personally assure you they are significantly more capable than the NAS Defenders, D1s, RRCs that you're referring to.

 

Maui isn't as much of a tourist trap as Waikiki is! You can get away with a bit more there!

I read that in Jeremy Clarkson's voice.

 

huh? Don't you guys in Vermont actually sell some of those? You should know they just have a soft dash and iconic vent delete, besides the latest electro-wiz diesel from Ford. The only capability ever added to a non-military defender by the factory was when they went to electronic traction control, which was a mixed blessing. To say it's really better is kind of like arguing the DII is more capable than a D1. There's nobody that wouldn't rather have lockers than some piece of british automotive electronics, especially when it depends on Land Rover brakes to do anything.

 

On with the TC debate... I for one think it's sacrilege to put lockers on a Land Rover. There is nothing more beautiful than watch a DII with TC and diff lock doing it's thing. Mind you both the TC and braking system must be in top condition. Maybe using higher quality brake components would help? High quality pads, Braided lines etc...

Has anyone noticed improvements in their TCs ability by upgrading brake components?

 

Well, a DII is more capable than a D1. And yes, the ABS/TC system is a game changer for the Defender. We have the system on our demonstrator model and it's night and day in cross-axle situations. Still has a center diff lock, still a diesel and still a 6 speed gearbox. But when two tires have no weight on them/are in the air, old Def/D1/RRC would just spin the free tires.

Btw soft dash started in Series III Land Rovers

 

ok, I did admit the TC added capability over open diffs, but I don't think I like it on what is to me a vehicle that is practically an icon for mechanical simplicity.

This is what I think is a fair comparison of the Puma and a Land Cruiser with diff locks: The critic favored the TC and the coil springs, but if you look beyond the "winner" you can get what I think is a fairly unbiased evaluation of the Defender. Check out part 1 also to see the dash changes, and some of the crappiness that Defender owners never talk about.

 

Well I can't say I'd ever want T/C over air lockers, and I understand what you're saying. But it's hard to say a NAS Defender is anywhere near as capable as the Puma with T/C. As for the dash, yes, it is a bit foofy now. But it's nicely done and is still very simplistic compared to some of the products out there. The mechanical simpleness pretty much went away with the Td5 engine, which is why military kept the 300Tdi until a few years ago.

 

I live about 2 hours from the Rubicon trail. I have never ran the trail myself but have went with friend in a modified toyota. I can assure you that nothing stock in the Land rover lineup would make it thru the trail without serious lower body damage and busted diffs. Now with that being said the Solid axle rovers do have some good points to allow for them to be good on the rubicon.
Soild axles,Good frame design, lots of aftermarket support and and a good off capability.
for a rover to get through the trail would require at least a 3" lift ,33's and armor and a rear locker. and thats a mild setup but the basics to at least make it through.
Alot of people never see Rovers on the Rubi because of their hefty weight and most fear that the trail would severely ravage the trucks. But D90's, D1's,D2's RRC's and a P38 have proven more than capable to go thru the entire trail with mods of course.
Jeeps and Toyota's usually are on the trail because they are cheap,easy to modify, lightweight and proven plus many dont mind a dent or two. but the even the FZJ-80 with lockers however without other mods would have a hard time getting through the rubicon without extreme body damage.

just my 02.

 

Thanks for your 02 Disco12. Your comment is running parallel with most in this thread. It's good to get some feedback from people who know first hand. I was quite familiar with the off-road functions of my DII going into this discussion, but I'm learning allot more.

So let me get this straight...
if a rear air locker is applied to a DII with CDL... The rear can be totally locked to drive. then you could leave the TC to sort out the front... The rear lock will inhibit turning but not as bad as if you have locks both front and back... right?

That last video was great. It' helped me understand lockers a little more. Does the Defender in the video not have hill dissent mode?

 

The defender in the video has a stall prevention feature to keep the diesel with a manual transmission from stalling.

HDC is an ABS function that applies the brakes for hill descent in a manner that helps prevent rear wheel lock, and the subsequent sliding and body rolling. But HDC does not prevent a vehicle with a manual transmission from stalling if you come to a stop with the clutch engaged. When you come to a stop, you have to have a way to keep the motor going. On an automatic transmission, the torque converter slips. On a manual transmission, you have to step on the clutch pedal to disconnect the motor. That's dangerous on a hill because you lose all your compression braking. You'll either going racing down the hill in what is effectively "neutral" or you'll have to smash the wheel brakes which again causes the rear wheels (with no weight on them) to lock up, slide and then the body pitches over sideways and tumbles down the hill.

Stalling is probably preferable to letting go, but if you stall, you have to get going again to complete the descent. That could involve using the clutch pedal to start the motor, which would have the same effect. It's better to essentially "push" start the motor by letting off the wheel brakes and allowing the vehicle to roll down the hill and turn the motor over. The problem is with a high compression diesel, the hill might not be steep enough to turn the motor over and you'll have to use the clutch pedal. Hence "stall prevention" wizardry.

Of course, on an automatic transmission with a slushy torque converter, none of this applies, except as part of the numerous arguments for why automatics are better for offroad driving. It seems as if the single-clutch has become practically obsolete since almost everything good nowadays has either an automatic or a dual-clutch "manual."