Too add to what Mike said, The induction cleaning is also necessary for the same reason. Rover makes a fuel treatment that they put in at scheduled service intervals. Since most people don't take their older trucks in to the dealer, you have to do this yourself. Going in through the tank will slowly clean out the deposits, and sucked in directly, it will really blow it all out.....

I wouldn't recommend using Seafoam in the crankcase though, use ATF for a good flush..

 

I liked Mark's original questionof whether or not Seafoam is a necessary maintenance item or the stuff of folklore. It's an interesting question. Like Mark, I've run several cars (some with dirty, old, rich-running carburetors) to 250K miles and beyond and never needed any internal engine work beyond normal maintenance.

Do Rovers run richer than Tahoes, Expeditions or Grand Cherokees? Are the engines which seem to benefit from the flush victims of neglected maintenance in the first place?

Just trying to understand why a properly tuned and maintained engine should need regular flushing as part of normal maintenance. Further- can we be sure that there aren't negative side effects such as seal damage that might offset the benefits we don't know about?

I understand the argument that if it doesn't hurt, why not do it, but I think Mark wanted to know if it's really needed as part of normal maintenance. That's what I was trying to reason through. Maybe this isn't the right place for that?

Dave

 

That was what I was trying to say......

Yes, it is needed. These engines do run richer than most to protect them all around the world in all conditions. Tahoe's aren't tuned to run down the highway and then go across the outback in Australia. They are still the old 1960's pushrod Buick engine with not much change.

The full induction cleaning is not absolutely necessary, if the proper maintenance has been done, and you know for a fact it has. Even with that, though, it is still a good idea so you know it is clean. A T-body cleaning and a good induction cleaning is good. The only thing it may hurt is the hose you use to suck it in. All of the other seals and gaskets are already exposed to similar elements. Seafoam has been around a long time, and if there were serious side effects, we would have heard about them...

The older Discovery's have regular exhaust valves. The newer ones have a carbon cutter groove cut it. If you have an older truck that has poor combustion from carbon build up, you run a severe risk of burning an exhaust valve.

To get to the point, I say yes it is needed. You may be ok without it, but for less than 10 bucks and 20 minutes, why not do it?

 

Thanks for your reply, okdiscoguy. You bring up another really interesting ideathat I've heard here a lotand have been thinking about. It has to do with the benefits of a rich mixture and protection for the engine. Not to hijack the thread, but why do folks think the Rovers run richer than other engines of comparable size and power output?

Without boring everyone with the details, mixture management has more to do with emissions control than for engine longevity. These engines just don't put out enough power for their displacement for heat dissipation or detonationto be a serious concern. Even on 87 octane gas, these engines have a pretty good detonation margin. Using higher octane fuel just keeps the knock sensor from having to retard the timing, allowing the engine to run at max output when needed. Pinging (pre-ignition) is a very different beast than detonation and isn't generally harmful.

How does this tie back to Mark's post? Well, I suspectthe Rover V8 runs noricher or dirtierthan any otherinjectedV8 of comparable size and power output.It definitelyruns much cleaner thanthe carbureted Ford 302s, Chevy 350s or even the Toyota 22Rs of yore. The fuel management of the Bosch or any EFI for that matter is so much better than earlier systems, that they are light years ahead of the old sludgemobile days. I never had to flush any of those beasts and still question the need to do so in the Rover if you'rekeeping up with other maintenance.

Anyway, thanks for listening. Just trying to raise an interesting discussion- I certainly don't mean to challenge anyone's ideas here. I just like to know the facts of some things just for the heck of it. From a practical standpoint, clearly there is little risk with flushing the engine once in a while. But as a matter of regular maintenance? The jury is still out. The money and time might be better spent on a clean air filter, good plugs and wires, and oil changes.

Cheers,
Dave

 

Geotrash-Who knows, all that sludge could be whats holding my Rover together right?
I use full synthetic's and change my oil every 5,ooo miles. When the engine lets loose than I will replace it and start from scratch. So no engine flush here.
As far as the carbon and injectors go. I do my best to keep that side clean. I did the seafoam treatment through the PCV vacum line at it works. Truck runs better. Maybe its all in my head, but I'm ok with that.Life is short so I dont lose sleep over it.
I tend to agree with you on the fuel mangement issue. Use the correct octane and a quality fuel and all should be good.

 

Every 5000mi with full synthetic is far too often, unless you only do a small amount of mileage a month. The only reason to change synthetic (within reason) is contamination. As Mike says the Rover V8 is a crappy engine and spews all kind of junk into the oil. Even so, you can easily do 7500mi or 6 months between changes. (check out the mobil 1 around the world expedition using 2003 Disco's.) Do however change the filter every change, that is critical to keeping the sludge down.

 

You are wrong. Do an oil analysis on your oil at 7500 and then you can tell people to do this. I have run several and 6K starts to get at mains. Rovers are different. Do the test and see for yourself.

This is a bad idea.

 

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...orld_Home.aspx

Well, these guys went to 28,000mi driving daily, same engine. I wouldn't recomend that for sure, but people do 10,000mi in high-shear engines without problems.

http://theautoprophet.blogspot.com/2...onspiracy.html

Quotes studies done on NYC Taxis that show no advantage to changing at 3000mi vs 6000mi

They also note that 7500mi is actually the manufacturer recommended interval on many engines.

Now, if you're looking for coolant in your oil and want to every 3000mi then fine, but Mobil 1 is expensive for a reason, it works and lasts. You'd be better changing your coolant more frequently than the 3 year recommended duration, that's where you're getting acids eating away at your gaskets causing the leaks in the first place. (not to mention degradation causing less thermal capacity etc)

 

One caveat, if you overheat your oil you need to change it. Nothing breaks down oil like heat, there are magic numbers for each kind of oil, and having a temp probe for oil temp installed would be a very good upgrade. Anyone know one that'll mount in the drain plug?

 

Each to his own. I will contiue to change my oil and filter every five. I also grease the u-joints with synthetic grease every oil change and I change my diff fluids and t-case (synthetic too) every 50k.
I use iridium plugs and change those every 50k too. Longlife coolant and do a flush every 5 years when I change the hoses and t-stat.
Change the tranny fluid every 30k and the filter evey 60k.
Over kill? Probally, but I dont break down either.I have never once been left on the side of the road.
Preventive maintaince is not an exact science. What works for some wont work for others.