Why a Land Rover??
#1
02-25-2010, 08:36 PM
Why a Land Rover??
I have been wanting to see the opinions on this subject for a while. My friend has a jeep cherokee, and other than the crap ride and lack of amenities (which I don't mind), what makes a Land Rover better than a jeep? I know that there is static between the two communities, so whats the difference? As far as I can tell, a Jeep can do anything that a land Rover can. The things that irritate me about a Land Rover is the engine quality. This is the first engine where it is common knowledge to need head gaskets at such low mileage. That 4.0 Jeep straight six sounds like a champ with 230000 miles. I love my rover, but someone needs to point out the advantages!
#2
02-25-2010, 11:43 PM
First an upfront disclaimer... I know jeeps well, I married into a Jeep family, everyone has at least one Jeep. I'm new to the Disco world. I just bought My disco today & I won't get to spend any meaningful time with it for about a week. All I know about the Disco is from research, but I did a lot of it! But if I have misstated or misunderstood something, please correct me. 
I like the XJ Cherokees & have wanted one for about 15 years, but I finally had my chance to get one & I've decided to go with a DI.
Here are some things that swayed me:
Disco is body on frame not unibody like the XJ, & the XJ has a rather weak unibody at that, made of 16 gauge steel. It can be strengthened with reinforcements, but it's not going to be like a Discovery's frame.
Disco has coil springs on all four corners, while the XJ has leaf springs in the rear. this gives the Disco an advantage in articulation. If you look at a XJ flexing, you'll see the front axle doing most of the work, while the rear is pretty stiff.
Disco has stronger axles. the axle shaft diameter on a Disco is bigger than a Dana 30, 35, or even the C 8.25, it's almost the same as a Dana 44. You can find XJs with a Dana 44 in the rear, but the front will still be a Dana 30 or 35. Yes you can upgrade, but that requires fabrication work, and the Disco already has a near equivalent of a Dana 44 in front & rear. The disco's axles can be easily upgraded so they are stronger than a Dana 44, doing that to a XJ requires lots of work &/or money.
Disco has a direct gear to gear locking CDL, with an open full time AWD. The XJs t-case does lock, but it's a chain driven front axle, which is weaker. If you want AWD, you need to find a XJ with Selec-trac, which has a slightly weaker case than the standard Command-trac. It's also much less expensive to put lower ratio gears in the Discos t-case. you can buy 4:1 kits for the xj cases but for the same price you can do so much more with the Disco's case. You can also upgrade the disco's high range gearing in the T-case. In an XJ you can only lower the over all gearing by swapping the axle differential gears. the problem there is as the gears get lower, they also get weaker. but by doing a combination of a t-case drive ratio swap with an axle gearing swap, you won't have to give up as much drive train strength as with doing it all in the axle differentials. Plus you can get one of these Sort of like a Klune but it just attaches to your t-case, no special fabrications & it doesn't move your t-case back like a Klune, so no new custom drive shafts.
On a disco, you can get 33" tires with only a $700 2" lift kit and a little trimming on the bumper (plastic). On an XJ, you'll need a 4" kit which is more like $1200 & lots of fender trimming.
The Disco does need proper care and feeding to keep it happy, So does the XJ, but it's not nearly as finicky. & that is probably the Disco's weak spot, but with all the money you've saved by not having to upgrade the XJ to a point that it still isn't as strong as the Disco, you could have paid for 2 or 3 head gasket jobs, that are largely avoidable by simply maintaining you engine. I read somewhere years ago, that because the Rover V8 is based on a Buick design, that dropping in a GM small block V8 was a relatively easy affair. If that is true, and it might not be, then instead of doing two head gasket jobs, you could just drop in a LS1 & call it a day!
I like the XJ Cherokees & have wanted one for about 15 years, but I finally had my chance to get one & I've decided to go with a DI.
Here are some things that swayed me:
Disco is body on frame not unibody like the XJ, & the XJ has a rather weak unibody at that, made of 16 gauge steel. It can be strengthened with reinforcements, but it's not going to be like a Discovery's frame.
Disco has coil springs on all four corners, while the XJ has leaf springs in the rear. this gives the Disco an advantage in articulation. If you look at a XJ flexing, you'll see the front axle doing most of the work, while the rear is pretty stiff.
Disco has stronger axles. the axle shaft diameter on a Disco is bigger than a Dana 30, 35, or even the C 8.25, it's almost the same as a Dana 44. You can find XJs with a Dana 44 in the rear, but the front will still be a Dana 30 or 35. Yes you can upgrade, but that requires fabrication work, and the Disco already has a near equivalent of a Dana 44 in front & rear. The disco's axles can be easily upgraded so they are stronger than a Dana 44, doing that to a XJ requires lots of work &/or money.
Disco has a direct gear to gear locking CDL, with an open full time AWD. The XJs t-case does lock, but it's a chain driven front axle, which is weaker. If you want AWD, you need to find a XJ with Selec-trac, which has a slightly weaker case than the standard Command-trac. It's also much less expensive to put lower ratio gears in the Discos t-case. you can buy 4:1 kits for the xj cases but for the same price you can do so much more with the Disco's case. You can also upgrade the disco's high range gearing in the T-case. In an XJ you can only lower the over all gearing by swapping the axle differential gears. the problem there is as the gears get lower, they also get weaker. but by doing a combination of a t-case drive ratio swap with an axle gearing swap, you won't have to give up as much drive train strength as with doing it all in the axle differentials. Plus you can get one of these Sort of like a Klune but it just attaches to your t-case, no special fabrications & it doesn't move your t-case back like a Klune, so no new custom drive shafts.
On a disco, you can get 33" tires with only a $700 2" lift kit and a little trimming on the bumper (plastic). On an XJ, you'll need a 4" kit which is more like $1200 & lots of fender trimming.
The Disco does need proper care and feeding to keep it happy, So does the XJ, but it's not nearly as finicky. & that is probably the Disco's weak spot, but with all the money you've saved by not having to upgrade the XJ to a point that it still isn't as strong as the Disco, you could have paid for 2 or 3 head gasket jobs, that are largely avoidable by simply maintaining you engine. I read somewhere years ago, that because the Rover V8 is based on a Buick design, that dropping in a GM small block V8 was a relatively easy affair. If that is true, and it might not be, then instead of doing two head gasket jobs, you could just drop in a LS1 & call it a day!
Last edited by Disco Den; 02-25-2010 at 11:52 PM.
#3
02-26-2010, 07:50 AM
Well I can say that I learned something! That was a great post. I find it funny that no one else has spoken up to defend the Land rover name. This is a big issue, I think everyone should know why they should pick a rover over Jeep, based on functionality, not styling. Everyone claims that we have the "best 4x4xfar", but how?
#4
02-26-2010, 07:55 AM
My reasons for liking my LR over a jeep is
1: You can not get a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee that seats 7, kinda important with 5 kids
2: Unibody. LR uses body-on-frame. Not that big a deal, unless you live in the road-salt laden north-east. I have looked at 5yr old jeeps that have rust holes in the floors and no rocker panels left. And if you look at the construction under a cherokee, once the floors start to rust, it gets awfully close to the subframe rails
3: I dont like driving down the road and seeing 5 cars just like mine, down to the same color and wheels.
4: Size- A disco is a tad bigger(wider,taller,roomier) than a jeep, but not into fullsize territory
5: Most lift makers recommend at least a 3" lift on a cherokee to fit 31x10.5's. A stock disco can fit a 245/75, which is roughly 30.5x10
But I will give Jeep their do. Their inline 6 is a bulletproof motor. Hell, if I could swap a 4.7 stroker version in my LR I would in a second. And they can hold their own off-road.
1: You can not get a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee that seats 7, kinda important with 5 kids
2: Unibody. LR uses body-on-frame. Not that big a deal, unless you live in the road-salt laden north-east. I have looked at 5yr old jeeps that have rust holes in the floors and no rocker panels left. And if you look at the construction under a cherokee, once the floors start to rust, it gets awfully close to the subframe rails
3: I dont like driving down the road and seeing 5 cars just like mine, down to the same color and wheels.
4: Size- A disco is a tad bigger(wider,taller,roomier) than a jeep, but not into fullsize territory
5: Most lift makers recommend at least a 3" lift on a cherokee to fit 31x10.5's. A stock disco can fit a 245/75, which is roughly 30.5x10
But I will give Jeep their do. Their inline 6 is a bulletproof motor. Hell, if I could swap a 4.7 stroker version in my LR I would in a second. And they can hold their own off-road.
#5
02-26-2010, 08:11 AM
My roomate has a cherokee (yeah makes for some serious trash talk) and I have a disco they both have there good and bad points but the dico kills his cherokee offroad and hes lifted about 4 more inches than my disco. As far as the interior Id sooner have the cherokee but thats my opinion. On road the jeep and the disco both get 12 mpg(at least his anyhow) but the 4.0 six in them jeeps are bulletproof.
#7
02-26-2010, 11:06 AM
yes the Jeep 4.0L is a great engine and is bulletproof, but I think rover engines (with the exception of the bad '03's) can be just as good with proper maintenance.
The inline 6 design is better for longevity than the V8 (50 million bmws/benz/volvos still on the road can't be wrong) Now compare our 4.0/4.6L V8 with the Jeep 5.2L V8..which would you rather have?
The inline 6 design is better for longevity than the V8 (50 million bmws/benz/volvos still on the road can't be wrong) Now compare our 4.0/4.6L V8 with the Jeep 5.2L V8..which would you rather have?
Last edited by NiteTrain; 02-26-2010 at 11:11 AM.
#8
02-26-2010, 11:31 AM
#9
02-26-2010, 11:47 AM
Mudding
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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My first vehicle was a '92 Jeep Cherokee, so I'm very familiar with the breed.
When I sold it, I had a good amount of money into it: 4.6L Stroker motor, Borla Headers, Flowmaster Catback, D44/D30 Locked front/rear w/ 4.88 gears, 5in lift w/ 33x10.5s, LED taillights, BPI rear bumper, ARB front bumper, etc.
Can I argue that Land Rovers are better than Jeeps? No. They both have their advantages....
The fact is, the cherokee specifically, has 1 more inch of wheel base, lighter due to the unibody, comparably powered "bulletproof" 4.0L 6cyl, a lower center of gravity and parts are cheaper.
My DI of course has a real frame, slightly stronger stock axles and more ground clearance stock.
In essence, it really comes down to personal taste. Most die-hard rover guys wouldn't be seen in a Jeep. Most jeep guys think rover owners are snobs. I think a land rover makes a different statement than a jeep does and that is the appeal of the rover. Most people classify the rover as a "classier" vehicle whereas jeeps are seen more as a cheaper, common vehicle.
Fact is, you see 10x more jeeps on the road than you do land rovers, and thats most of the reason why I own one. I like my vehicle to stand out, be different. My previous car was an '07 Honda S2000, which again you don't see too many of.
A few pics of my old XJ....I think it resides somewhere in the north east now....
Crozet, VA '05
Paragon, PA '03
When I sold it, I had a good amount of money into it: 4.6L Stroker motor, Borla Headers, Flowmaster Catback, D44/D30 Locked front/rear w/ 4.88 gears, 5in lift w/ 33x10.5s, LED taillights, BPI rear bumper, ARB front bumper, etc.
Can I argue that Land Rovers are better than Jeeps? No. They both have their advantages....
The fact is, the cherokee specifically, has 1 more inch of wheel base, lighter due to the unibody, comparably powered "bulletproof" 4.0L 6cyl, a lower center of gravity and parts are cheaper.
My DI of course has a real frame, slightly stronger stock axles and more ground clearance stock.
In essence, it really comes down to personal taste. Most die-hard rover guys wouldn't be seen in a Jeep. Most jeep guys think rover owners are snobs. I think a land rover makes a different statement than a jeep does and that is the appeal of the rover. Most people classify the rover as a "classier" vehicle whereas jeeps are seen more as a cheaper, common vehicle.
Fact is, you see 10x more jeeps on the road than you do land rovers, and thats most of the reason why I own one. I like my vehicle to stand out, be different. My previous car was an '07 Honda S2000, which again you don't see too many of.
A few pics of my old XJ....I think it resides somewhere in the north east now....
Crozet, VA '05
Paragon, PA '03
#10
02-26-2010, 12:28 PM
Rock Crawling
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montrose, CO
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I own a 97 Disco because it's different and unique especially in western Colorado. There are a million Jeeps around here and few LRs especially LRs that actually wheel offroad on anything difficult. I am a member of my local 4x4 club which is almost all Jeep. I'm the only LR at the moment. I love Jeeps and think they are great offroaders. I'm not an LR snob at all. I also have attended the Moab Easter Jeep Safari twice and will again this year for a few days. Mainly Jeeps with a few LRs and other makes. It's fun to be different in a sea of Jeeps and show them that Discos are very capable but I would never put down Jeeps. They are terrific as are the people that wheel them.