Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread
Pro Wrench
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 142
From: Las Vegas
I have an idea you probly won't like - have you considered swapping a GM 3800 (L36) instead of a LSX?
The 3800 was also based on the Buick 215, but is a much more modern design with lots of performance parts available. The trans bolt pattern is different from the Rover, but I bet it'd be much easier to adapt than a LSX. I'm sure you can get all the used parts you need for almost nothing since they are so common, and since it's a much smaller engine than a LSX, it'll simplify everything. Also, I bet you could fit the factory supercharger from the L67 if you're into that sort of thing.
The 3800 was also based on the Buick 215, but is a much more modern design with lots of performance parts available. The trans bolt pattern is different from the Rover, but I bet it'd be much easier to adapt than a LSX. I'm sure you can get all the used parts you need for almost nothing since they are so common, and since it's a much smaller engine than a LSX, it'll simplify everything. Also, I bet you could fit the factory supercharger from the L67 if you're into that sort of thing.
I had thought of this exact swap when reading this thread. Since the 4.0 is such a dog the L67 would out power it easily. Not sure about the torque comparison.
It's a 60 degree block correct? That would fix the space issue. The weight even in full cast iron form would probably be similar. Fuel efficiency would surely increase. Tons of them in the bone yard. I used to have a Monte Carlos SS with one and I remember a company called Thrasher Engineering. Lots of after market parts. I love this idea.
Kudos to all your efforts in the LS swap. That will be amazing when your done. Wish I had the time. The 4.0 is a good engine but in my opinion a real weakness in this truck.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 52
From: Tampa, FL
The final version of the 4.0 made 188hp / 250 ft-lbs of torque.
The final Rover 4.6 made 222 hp / 300 ft-lbs.
The stock L36 naturally aspirated 3.8 made 205 hp / 230 ft-lbs.
The supercharged L67 made 240 hp / 280 ft-lbs.
So, I'm certain you could tune a L36 a bit and make more torque and hp than a 4.0. You'd want to install a camshaft that puts the max torque around 2500 rpm.
The final Rover 4.6 made 222 hp / 300 ft-lbs.
The stock L36 naturally aspirated 3.8 made 205 hp / 230 ft-lbs.
The supercharged L67 made 240 hp / 280 ft-lbs.
So, I'm certain you could tune a L36 a bit and make more torque and hp than a 4.0. You'd want to install a camshaft that puts the max torque around 2500 rpm.
Overlanding
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
I'll definitely be following this thread! I'm doing a LT1 swap into a Defender at the shop now and have also started doing research on the the same swap you are performing. The Defender has a manual trans so that made this swap much simpler. The ease of tuning the GM ECM's helps a lot with these swaps...we had to get the LT1 ECM reprogrammed to accept a different number of pulses for the VSS and also disabled all the security key functions.
Thasher is long long gone. Also torque is no issue for that motor, it produces more torque to horsepower than a majority of anything while easily mod-able with just a few bolt on pieces to produce more power than any LSx platform.
You would obviously have to get one out of a Camaro/Firebird, seeing as the Pontiac Grand Prix, Regal, etc...etc... is mounted sideways. Which would force you to run as N/A unless you fabricate a new throttle body to supercharger inlet setup, and also change the upper intake manifold. At that point you would also be running a higher compression engine than a normal L67/L32 since the L32/L26 is higher compression from the factory due to it not being equipped with a blower.... and you would absolutely have to run premium in it, all the time. The motors are bullet proof as long as you run premium, which is required 100% with the supercharger, especially a supercharged L32/L26.
Performance parts are still relatively easy to find, but now days nothing like it used to be, and nothing new or revolutionary is being made any longer. Also there is a very slim knowledge base still out there for the platform. If you know where to look and who to get in touch with you can still find people who know their stuff. Ideally you would need to get a hold of a DHP Powertuner (Of which my fellow GTPeh friend in town runs the DHP forums) or a HP Tuner for the specific year the PCM you install from the vehicle. (I could possible lend you one of the two if it ever got that far)
Let me know if you ever get the point of considering this (I hope not, I hope all goes well with what your doing now, but if that day comes I'll gladly help with what I can. Not sure what we still have around the shop, we've thrown away most of out 3.8 engines and accessories that we've gathered since the lat 90's by now since they're no longer useful to us, but it won't be hard to find anything)
(And because I can) ->
You would obviously have to get one out of a Camaro/Firebird, seeing as the Pontiac Grand Prix, Regal, etc...etc... is mounted sideways. Which would force you to run as N/A unless you fabricate a new throttle body to supercharger inlet setup, and also change the upper intake manifold. At that point you would also be running a higher compression engine than a normal L67/L32 since the L32/L26 is higher compression from the factory due to it not being equipped with a blower.... and you would absolutely have to run premium in it, all the time. The motors are bullet proof as long as you run premium, which is required 100% with the supercharger, especially a supercharged L32/L26.
Performance parts are still relatively easy to find, but now days nothing like it used to be, and nothing new or revolutionary is being made any longer. Also there is a very slim knowledge base still out there for the platform. If you know where to look and who to get in touch with you can still find people who know their stuff. Ideally you would need to get a hold of a DHP Powertuner (Of which my fellow GTPeh friend in town runs the DHP forums) or a HP Tuner for the specific year the PCM you install from the vehicle. (I could possible lend you one of the two if it ever got that far)
Let me know if you ever get the point of considering this (I hope not, I hope all goes well with what your doing now, but if that day comes I'll gladly help with what I can. Not sure what we still have around the shop, we've thrown away most of out 3.8 engines and accessories that we've gathered since the lat 90's by now since they're no longer useful to us, but it won't be hard to find anything)
(And because I can) ->
...and yeah. I would pretty much advise not even considering added a supercharger. It bolts right on once the intake is on, but then you have to sort out the fact that the intake of the supercharger is now pointed straight at the firewall.
Mudding
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: Canterbury, CT
Thasher is long long gone. Also torque is no issue for that motor, it produces more torque to horsepower than a majority of anything while easily mod-able with just a few bolt on pieces to produce more power than any LSx platform.
You would obviously have to get one out of a Camaro/Firebird, seeing as the Pontiac Grand Prix, Regal, etc...etc... is mounted sideways. Which would force you to run as N/A unless you fabricate a new throttle body to supercharger inlet setup, and also change the upper intake manifold. At that point you would also be running a higher compression engine than a normal L67/L32 since the L32/L26 is higher compression from the factory due to it not being equipped with a blower.... and you would absolutely have to run premium in it, all the time. The motors are bullet proof as long as you run premium, which is required 100% with the supercharger, especially a supercharged L32/L26.
Performance parts are still relatively easy to find, but now days nothing like it used to be, and nothing new or revolutionary is being made any longer. Also there is a very slim knowledge base still out there for the platform. If you know where to look and who to get in touch with you can still find people who know their stuff. Ideally you would need to get a hold of a DHP Powertuner (Of which my fellow GTPeh friend in town runs the DHP forums) or a HP Tuner for the specific year the PCM you install from the vehicle. (I could possible lend you one of the two if it ever got that far)
Let me know if you ever get the point of considering this (I hope not, I hope all goes well with what your doing now, but if that day comes I'll gladly help with what I can. Not sure what we still have around the shop, we've thrown away most of out 3.8 engines and accessories that we've gathered since the lat 90's by now since they're no longer useful to us, but it won't be hard to find anything)
(And because I can) ->
You would obviously have to get one out of a Camaro/Firebird, seeing as the Pontiac Grand Prix, Regal, etc...etc... is mounted sideways. Which would force you to run as N/A unless you fabricate a new throttle body to supercharger inlet setup, and also change the upper intake manifold. At that point you would also be running a higher compression engine than a normal L67/L32 since the L32/L26 is higher compression from the factory due to it not being equipped with a blower.... and you would absolutely have to run premium in it, all the time. The motors are bullet proof as long as you run premium, which is required 100% with the supercharger, especially a supercharged L32/L26.
Performance parts are still relatively easy to find, but now days nothing like it used to be, and nothing new or revolutionary is being made any longer. Also there is a very slim knowledge base still out there for the platform. If you know where to look and who to get in touch with you can still find people who know their stuff. Ideally you would need to get a hold of a DHP Powertuner (Of which my fellow GTPeh friend in town runs the DHP forums) or a HP Tuner for the specific year the PCM you install from the vehicle. (I could possible lend you one of the two if it ever got that far)
Let me know if you ever get the point of considering this (I hope not, I hope all goes well with what your doing now, but if that day comes I'll gladly help with what I can. Not sure what we still have around the shop, we've thrown away most of out 3.8 engines and accessories that we've gathered since the lat 90's by now since they're no longer useful to us, but it won't be hard to find anything)
(And because I can) ->
In the weight issue, having lifted both the 3800 definitely seemed heavier than the 4.0.
Thread Starter
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Rock Crawling
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 290
Likes: 5
From: Odenville Alabama
Update
The 3.8 swap might be an option if the LSX flames out. Although, I would guess that the biggest problems I have with the LM4 involving the 4x4 driveshafts and transfer case would be just as involved or worse.
The aftermarket support for the LS family is growing every day. Bolt on solutions are available for many problems for those with the budget to handle it.
I made a lot progress this weekend, some issues solved, some new problems pop up.
1. Got the engine mounted, I modified some F-Body mounts, swapped the left and right, shortened one and lengthened the other and flipped both upside down.
2. Made a first and second attempt at the transmission mount, looks like I might go with a solid mount, but I need to locate the transfer case in place to check for interference.
3. Test fit the AC compressor , water pump, mechanical fan, alternator and my Power steering pump relocation bracket. Also the intake and exhaust manifolds.
My modified Power steering pump bracket and stock truck compressor seem fine, no problems.
Intake is very tall (may hit the hood). The alternator is even taller. Also, the intake is hitting the AC lines on the firewall, I whacked them with a 2x4 and got about 1/2", I will need to shave another 1/2" off the back of the plastic intake.
The mechanical fan needs about 1 more inch of space before it will work. This is using the Rover fan instead of the GM (GM is about 2 inches thicker), the radiator will have to be moved forward some or convert to electric fans.
Right side truck exhaust manifold will work with no modification, but the left side will require something other than the truck unit, (it kicks out right into the frame rail). I did not get the center outlet LS3 Corvette manifolds I mentioned in an earlier post. I have an F-Body manifold I think may work with some extensive surgery.
I have decided to try to make the GM NP2 transfer case work. **** Key word is try.**** It is a driver side front output so I will have to clock it 180 degrees. Because of limited case material available to drill into for mounting studs, I cannot angle it down far enough to suit me. So it looks like the floor pan just above the right side frame rail will have to be clearanced some. Vent will also have to be relocated. And now for the bad news, the GM case is a center output for the rear shaft, and it is sticking out a lot farther to the rear than the Rover case. It looks like I will have to build some sort of transmission/driveshaft tunnel in the rear seat floor area.
Thanks for all the kind words, wiring mods are coming up soon... that will be another big bucket full of problems. Getting a good usable VSS from the SLABS will be high on the list.
"War Eagle" again......
Here is picture of motor mounts installed not painted.
The aftermarket support for the LS family is growing every day. Bolt on solutions are available for many problems for those with the budget to handle it.
I made a lot progress this weekend, some issues solved, some new problems pop up.
1. Got the engine mounted, I modified some F-Body mounts, swapped the left and right, shortened one and lengthened the other and flipped both upside down.
2. Made a first and second attempt at the transmission mount, looks like I might go with a solid mount, but I need to locate the transfer case in place to check for interference.
3. Test fit the AC compressor , water pump, mechanical fan, alternator and my Power steering pump relocation bracket. Also the intake and exhaust manifolds.
My modified Power steering pump bracket and stock truck compressor seem fine, no problems.
Intake is very tall (may hit the hood). The alternator is even taller. Also, the intake is hitting the AC lines on the firewall, I whacked them with a 2x4 and got about 1/2", I will need to shave another 1/2" off the back of the plastic intake.
The mechanical fan needs about 1 more inch of space before it will work. This is using the Rover fan instead of the GM (GM is about 2 inches thicker), the radiator will have to be moved forward some or convert to electric fans.
Right side truck exhaust manifold will work with no modification, but the left side will require something other than the truck unit, (it kicks out right into the frame rail). I did not get the center outlet LS3 Corvette manifolds I mentioned in an earlier post. I have an F-Body manifold I think may work with some extensive surgery.
I have decided to try to make the GM NP2 transfer case work. **** Key word is try.**** It is a driver side front output so I will have to clock it 180 degrees. Because of limited case material available to drill into for mounting studs, I cannot angle it down far enough to suit me. So it looks like the floor pan just above the right side frame rail will have to be clearanced some. Vent will also have to be relocated. And now for the bad news, the GM case is a center output for the rear shaft, and it is sticking out a lot farther to the rear than the Rover case. It looks like I will have to build some sort of transmission/driveshaft tunnel in the rear seat floor area.
Thanks for all the kind words, wiring mods are coming up soon... that will be another big bucket full of problems. Getting a good usable VSS from the SLABS will be high on the list.
"War Eagle" again......
Here is picture of motor mounts installed not painted.