Hi,

My 07 LR3 blew it's left front Xenon low beam this afternoon. I know I have to remove the grill, pop the levers on the headlight assembly (etc) to change the bulb - but what do I do about the factory installed, bumper mounted driving/fog lights ? Do I have to remove them to get the grill out - or is there some trick anybody can pass on ? The issue is that the rear of the fog lights mount is holding the grill in place...

If I have to remove them - umm... how ? I can't see anything obvious!

Thanks for reading,

Mark

 

I was wondering what you will be using for a replacement HID bulb?

One of the files per the link below has some info related to the D2S style 4300K colour Philips bulbs that are the original bulb that LR installed. I regard the 4300K colour as still the best, well least worst of the alternatives.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - LR3 miscellaneous

When you say low beam, if we are talking the same HID's that are usually on the HSE and some SE's, the bulb is both high and low beam. There is an internal shutter within that flips up and down and hence why you get both low and high beam out of the same lens. Item 13466C is also a high beam bulb and comes on when the passing flasher function is engaged or when you actually call up high beam - then you have four high beam sources - that is one reason the lighting is so good a night.

The HID's cannot be used for the pass to flash function as there is a warm up time for the HID's.

As to getting to the HID bulb, (Item 13466B in the line diagram), if the grill will not come off due to what I gather are bumper mounted fog lights, I guess you will have to remove the fog lights or perhaps bend them down to get the grill out.

You may not have to fully remove the grill - just get the top loose so you can get at the slide clips, (item 13N020), so you can pull them upwards. There may also be enough play for the head light assembly to slip out or forward a bit to get at the HID bulb.

 

Perfect timing with a Q.!!I wanted to start a new thread regarding Xenons , but will probably piggyback on this one as it is related to it anyway.

First thing first...are you talking about fog lights that are usually located in corners of lower bumper or you actually have a set of driving hela lights installed on grill?

Now ..I want to replace a Xenon D2S with a new set of eyes.Manual, that many of us here downloaded from Ebay seller once, says that Xenon D2S is rated with 35W, whereas owner's handbook on page 313 indicates a 55W bulb.Which is true, which one is incorrect or typo , so to speak?

The reason I want to replace them is there kind of faded out, lost their brightness over the years and are not there to protect me from a common dangers of night driving.It is just what a Xenarc bulbs do, they fade out overtime , instead of going out.
There are a few options out there, on the market today,I am leaning towards Osram. They have OEM replacement which is now more of 4100 K, instead 4300K originally placed in LR3, also worth considering is a Silverlight , the most powerful bulb on the scene today.As we speak, however , Osram added a newest product called Xenarc D2S Night Breaker Unlimited, which should have a light color of 4300K and that is the closest to the OEM output as it ever will be, with more light and intensity ever produced by any company.
Ther is also a Cool Blue bulb with a 5000K output, but honestly, this is a poor fit for a rainy or any long distance driving conditions for that matter, as it is too white and puts a lot of strain on retina.

 

My thoughts are that 4100K and 4300K are virtually the same colour lights and both have about equal merit, certainly a better choice than 5000K or higher. Well 5000K is OK except that the bluer rays creates more glare to oncoming traffic than 4300K and a typical 35 watt HID "bulb" puts out about 5% less light. Also the blue colour creates more backscatter from rain and snow so even the driver of the blue HID vehicle can suffer.

I have considered installing the 3000K D2S yellow HID's but while that is good for true fog lights, (have 2500K in my H11 halogen fog lights in the lower bumper corners), probably the white 4300K is the least worst for North America.

I used the term least worst above as I did spend some time back in the seventies in French New Caledonia in the South Pacific where all vehicle headlights were yellow. It was great, as these were the days of the flat lens Cibie headlights with the flat top pattern as we now have on our 3's, and to my recent surprise, also on the new 2014 Chev and GMC pickups with the optional extra cost projector headlights.

On the islands, all oncoming vehicles appeared to merely have their park lights on; there was no glare, the pupils in ones eyes open wider, hence night vision is outstanding. Driving was sort of similar to an airplane cockpit at night, near totally dark with the dash lights very low, hence one could see the road and surroundings very well and on coming traffic, while visible, it was like they were just on their park lights. When everyone plays by the same rules, night driving can be very pleasant. That also means the street lights have to be yellow as well.

Anyway, people who design illumination systems regard the 4300K colour as a good compromise to provide what is called definition. This is effectively the ability to actually determine what an object being illuminated probably is. The more blue colour bulbs, say 6000K and greater, result in a significant reduction in the ability to distinguish detail, (regardless of brightness), of the object being illuminated.

Effectively, you can see the object but you cannot quite figure out what it is. This is because the more blue frequencies means there are fewer other frequencies of light that allow our eyes to actually define what an object really is.

For rain, dust, snow, fog, etc, then the yellow 3000K or lower is preferable. More contrast is provided, and there is less back splash of light off the air particles.

There is very little justification for the blue colours other than when the HID first came out, the bulb manufacturers did not yet know how to produce a balanced colour bulb cheaply. The blue colours were cheap and easy and all they were capable of when Mercedes made them popular. As such, those wanting the expensive car look still emulate the old Mercedes appearance.

For those that use their headlights for actual night driving, the 4300K colour balanced bulbs illuminate objects the best; second choice is shifting back to the yellow 3000K, and as above, actually a very old colour used in Europe in the fifties and for fog lights now.

3000K has many advantages in less than perfect day and night driving conditions and is worthy of consideration.

Yes, I noted the sort of typo in the LR manual. The 55 watts I believe refers to the SE model halogen headlights. I note that in my previous post, the halogen bulb was also shown in that line drawing of the back of the headlight assembly and was called up as Item 13466F.

The HID bulbs of the HSE models and some SE's are rated at 35 watts, and more significantly, the associated ballasts are rated for 35 watt bulbs.

I might note that a 35 watt HID puts out more visible light than a 55 watt halogen. As for brand name, as long as the bulb is a name EU manufacturer, the HID will be OK; it is the far east copies that are the problem as they lack any sort of quality control and are rarely what they claim to be - and yes, even brand name HID's dim with time and should be replaced in pairs even though they are not burned out.

I will be interested in hearing more about the Xenarc HID's - they are news to me.

 

I reckon Mark is having an issue with something like these, found on the LR Canada website under "ACCESSORIES" Please note that the mounts are not included with the lights and are purchased separately and mounted directly to the top surface of the bumper in front of the grill.

Unfortunately, Mark, I cannot provide insight on these lights as I have not yet seen a set in person. Hopefully someone can help now that there is a clear picture of your issue.

 

Hi to all,

Thanks for the replies, and the lively discussion on bulbs...

I ordered a pair of Phillips D2S' from a place in the states - 89 USD for a pair, vs. the 411.34 my local LR dealer wanted for a single bulb - even after taxes/duties at the border I got them both for 120 bucks - much better.

Yes - the lights I'm talking about are the ones listed on the Canadian LR site under "accessories" - I tried bending the grill out far enough to remove the headlight fixture, but in -20 weather I didn't want to go too far... no joy.

I was hoping somebody may have an ingenious way around the problem, but I'm just gonna have to face it - with -20's expected for the next couple of days, I'm going to have to visit my friendly neighborhood mechanic so we can mess with the foglights in a nice, heated bay...

Thanks again to everybody!

Mark

 

Attached is the LR instructions as to how to mount the official LR Driving Light brackets that I kind of think you have installed. Also for info, is the wiring install for the lights. If you have the full meal deal official install, you have quite a setup there.

I think I see your grill problem, and if so, it is a problem.

It would appear that there is a "nice" moulded piece of the official bracket that rolls back onto the grill, all pretty like.

Perhaps it you print out the attachment, you can figure out how to remove your driving lights, and then the plastic cap related to the brackets. With the cap piece removed, then the grill should remove with no fuss.

I note that when I remove a headlight assembly, I lay a parka on the ground under where the assemble might fall. The power cable from the vehicle will keep the assembly from first falling but I find that when I fumble around disconnecting the cable plug from the assembly, that it can take three hands - well one if you un click the plug properly the first time, but ...

 

Bruce, you always have very good information. Is there somewhere we could find instructions and diagrams such as these for ourselves? If it is not a public access type of thing then could I request a post including the LR instructions / wiring diagram for the lower bumper mounted factory fog lights?

I do not have front fog lights but I would like to install some and have them function as stock ones would; connected to the low beam circuit.

Thanks in advance,

Wes

 

Compared to a few years back, finding data on the 3 is easy - well it is still not easy but it is possible.

Initially the only sources were the UK forum and the Australian forum as those guys really seem to get into their 3's. The UK bunch are good at the fancy delicate stuff and the Aussies expect their 3's to be air conditioned moon buggies, autobahn racers, and submarines all wrapped up in a fix it yourself package.

Land Rover has on the internet something they call TOPIX off which I got those LR driving light instructions for free. the TOPIX site seems to consist of two parts, the free one and the costs money, lots of money portion but I think it is really for the dealers and the money thing is to keep you out.

The free part works pretty good however for many of their publications that are sort of driver related. You can download the owners manuals as well as install instructions for options etc.

Basically you register for free and then a page will come up where you type in the VIN of your 3 and it will be saved if you ask it to. Then there is a button called FIND and when you push it, the program finds your 3 on the Land Rover data base. This is to your advantage so use your VIN.

There is also a button at the top right that says OWNER, push it and more stuff will come up, most of which access will be denied unless you pay money.

On the far left side you will see buttons for Owner's Handbook, (yes the full meal deal), Infotainment Handbooks, and Accessory Fitting instructions. What is good is that you can download the pdf's and then keep them on you laptop for when there is no internet available.

The link is as below:
https://topix.landrover.jlrext.com/t...cle/lookupForm

or one step above, this link if above does not work.

TOPIx - TOPIx


For the stuff you really want, the wiring diagrams, tear apart instructions you might cast about on this link and be ready to do a lot of downloading.

https://www.cubby.com/pl/LR3+worksho...kshop%20Manual

There is alot in the above - should take you days to get it all. It took me years and I am still finding stuff.

 

Awesome stuff Bruce!

I tried buying the one VIN membership from TOPIx and had trouble at check out. My bank said everything should have worked. I tried many times and finally gave up. I didn't realize I could access so much for free. I will have to fire it back up and look into it more.

I have book marked the cubby site, I think I'll let the internet store my data until I need it, then I'll save a copy for reference.