How many miles ?
#2
05-21-2016, 04:27 PM
Pro Wrench
runs as long as you can afford to fix it
There are guys in the UK with + a half million miles in commercial use with the diesel engine. I think some even have a million now.
Here, it is just a matter of how much time and money you have to keep it running. The body seems rust resistant; the frame is strong and will last a long time vs say relative to far east production, and it is of course stronger than American half ton pickups as well; closer to the one ton variety.
Mechanically, it is no Chev, but with lots of maintenance money, it will run for years. Do not confuse it with a Jeep either. You will normally spend a lot less money on a Jeep than you ever would with the 3.
Also Jeep has a lot better selection of off road stuff, tyres etc; the 3 is a totally different vehicle, and necessarily suitable for everyone.
Here, it is just a matter of how much time and money you have to keep it running. The body seems rust resistant; the frame is strong and will last a long time vs say relative to far east production, and it is of course stronger than American half ton pickups as well; closer to the one ton variety.
Mechanically, it is no Chev, but with lots of maintenance money, it will run for years. Do not confuse it with a Jeep either. You will normally spend a lot less money on a Jeep than you ever would with the 3.
Also Jeep has a lot better selection of off road stuff, tyres etc; the 3 is a totally different vehicle, and necessarily suitable for everyone.
#3
05-22-2016, 12:03 AM
Not sure why Jeeps keep getting dragged into these comparisons, it's an insult to Land Rover's.
I'd rather compare them to BMW Lexus Mercedes, even Porsche. Now Lexus/Toyota may have us beat on reliability and maintenance cost above 100k miles, but they lack personality and Rover ability (Without being pretentious). Feel free to read the other manufactures forums listed above, I think you'll find we enjoy lower repair bills and a bit more reliability.
As a new comer, If you don't need Rovers ability off pavement, you should reevaluate your needs. Maybe the AWD Rav4 Limited? Unless of course you've always wanted one, in that case. Welcome.
If you don't mind getting dirty, own a good set of tools, including jack stands, floor jack, spending time searching the internet for solutions, these are rather enjoyable to work on. Simpler than most people think.
Before 100k miles (We've gone through 2 LR3's) one, or two batteries, height sensors and regular scheduled maintenance. Above 100k, alternator, starter, cowl below wind screen twice.
I'd rather compare them to BMW Lexus Mercedes, even Porsche. Now Lexus/Toyota may have us beat on reliability and maintenance cost above 100k miles, but they lack personality and Rover ability (Without being pretentious). Feel free to read the other manufactures forums listed above, I think you'll find we enjoy lower repair bills and a bit more reliability.
As a new comer, If you don't need Rovers ability off pavement, you should reevaluate your needs. Maybe the AWD Rav4 Limited? Unless of course you've always wanted one, in that case. Welcome.
If you don't mind getting dirty, own a good set of tools, including jack stands, floor jack, spending time searching the internet for solutions, these are rather enjoyable to work on. Simpler than most people think.
Before 100k miles (We've gone through 2 LR3's) one, or two batteries, height sensors and regular scheduled maintenance. Above 100k, alternator, starter, cowl below wind screen twice.
#4
05-22-2016, 06:57 AM
Not sure why Jeeps keep getting dragged into these comparisons, it's an insult to Land Rover's.
I'd rather compare them to BMW Lexus Mercedes, even Porsche. Now Lexus/Toyota may have us beat on reliability and maintenance cost above 100k miles, but they lack personality and Rover ability (Without being pretentious). Feel free to read the other manufactures forums listed above, I think you'll find we enjoy lower repair bills and a bit more reliability.
As a new comer, If you don't need Rovers ability off pavement, you should reevaluate your needs. Maybe the AWD Rav4 Limited? Unless of course you've always wanted one, in that case. Welcome.
If you don't mind getting dirty, own a good set of tools, including jack stands, floor jack, spending time searching the internet for solutions, these are rather enjoyable to work on. Simpler than most people think.
Before 100k miles (We've gone through 2 LR3's) one, or two batteries, height sensors and regular scheduled maintenance. Above 100k, alternator, starter, cowl below wind screen twice.
I'd rather compare them to BMW Lexus Mercedes, even Porsche. Now Lexus/Toyota may have us beat on reliability and maintenance cost above 100k miles, but they lack personality and Rover ability (Without being pretentious). Feel free to read the other manufactures forums listed above, I think you'll find we enjoy lower repair bills and a bit more reliability.
As a new comer, If you don't need Rovers ability off pavement, you should reevaluate your needs. Maybe the AWD Rav4 Limited? Unless of course you've always wanted one, in that case. Welcome.
If you don't mind getting dirty, own a good set of tools, including jack stands, floor jack, spending time searching the internet for solutions, these are rather enjoyable to work on. Simpler than most people think.
Before 100k miles (We've gone through 2 LR3's) one, or two batteries, height sensors and regular scheduled maintenance. Above 100k, alternator, starter, cowl below wind screen twice.
#6
05-22-2016, 10:46 AM
Pro Wrench
Mercedes G Wagon
When you talk cowl replacement and leaking, I get a bit puzzled.
If the concern is the intersection of the windscreen and the top of the cowl and that a gap due to warping of the cowl plastic opens up, my solution was a strip of black 3M electrical tape. I might add that a gap due to warping only really matters directly above the heater air inlet on the "passenger side".
The link below relates to cowl replacement, but the jpg of interest is the one showing the air opening down into the heater area. That is where volumes of water can come. Some shield that opening with a piece of metal to deflect dripping water. The general feeling is that the condition of the intersection of the windscreen glass and the top of cowling is not a great concern unless one lives in a tropical rain area.
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Upcoming project
Regarding a direct fair comparison to the LR3/4/Discovery3/4, my thinking is that the Mercedes G Wagon is the only candidate.
The far east production tend to be lower technology vehicles on perhaps strengthened pickup frames. Mechanical reliability tends to be higher and repair costs lower due to the use of older long proven "technology" of of course, reduced ability. The Prado vehicles are the best example of this. Solid axles, limited electronics, few creature comforts, and old engine designs do work well in third world markets.
The G Wagon is a best comparison in that frame and body wise, it is probably stronger than the LR series; the engines are perhaps more reliable than the LR engines and the drive trains and suspension, less sophisticated, hence less prone to trouble.
The reason I bring up Jeep is that the original Series Land Rovers were based on the Willey's Jeep. Jeep in my mind is still the best value 4x4.
If Fiat got serious about it, they could sell Jeep products world wide and give the far east guys a good run. At the same time, I am not certain I would want to be the supplier of motor products to the terrorists of the world. I guess it is just business.
If the concern is the intersection of the windscreen and the top of the cowl and that a gap due to warping of the cowl plastic opens up, my solution was a strip of black 3M electrical tape. I might add that a gap due to warping only really matters directly above the heater air inlet on the "passenger side".
The link below relates to cowl replacement, but the jpg of interest is the one showing the air opening down into the heater area. That is where volumes of water can come. Some shield that opening with a piece of metal to deflect dripping water. The general feeling is that the condition of the intersection of the windscreen glass and the top of cowling is not a great concern unless one lives in a tropical rain area.
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Upcoming project
Regarding a direct fair comparison to the LR3/4/Discovery3/4, my thinking is that the Mercedes G Wagon is the only candidate.
The far east production tend to be lower technology vehicles on perhaps strengthened pickup frames. Mechanical reliability tends to be higher and repair costs lower due to the use of older long proven "technology" of of course, reduced ability. The Prado vehicles are the best example of this. Solid axles, limited electronics, few creature comforts, and old engine designs do work well in third world markets.
The G Wagon is a best comparison in that frame and body wise, it is probably stronger than the LR series; the engines are perhaps more reliable than the LR engines and the drive trains and suspension, less sophisticated, hence less prone to trouble.
The reason I bring up Jeep is that the original Series Land Rovers were based on the Willey's Jeep. Jeep in my mind is still the best value 4x4.
If Fiat got serious about it, they could sell Jeep products world wide and give the far east guys a good run. At the same time, I am not certain I would want to be the supplier of motor products to the terrorists of the world. I guess it is just business.
#7
05-22-2016, 11:02 AM
Not sure why Jeeps keep getting dragged into these comparisons, it's an insult to Land Rover's.
I'd rather compare them to BMW Lexus Mercedes, even Porsche. Now Lexus/Toyota may have us beat on reliability and maintenance cost above 100k miles, but they lack personality and Rover ability (Without being pretentious). Feel free to read the other manufactures forums listed above, I think you'll find we enjoy lower repair bills and a bit more reliability.
As a new comer, If you don't need Rovers ability off pavement, you should reevaluate your needs. Maybe the AWD Rav4 Limited? Unless of course you've always wanted one, in that case. Welcome.
If you don't mind getting dirty, own a good set of tools, including jack stands, floor jack, spending time searching the internet for solutions, these are rather enjoyable to work on. Simpler than most people think.
Before 100k miles (We've gone through 2 LR3's) one, or two batteries, height sensors and regular scheduled maintenance. Above 100k, alternator, starter, cowl below wind screen twice.
I'd rather compare them to BMW Lexus Mercedes, even Porsche. Now Lexus/Toyota may have us beat on reliability and maintenance cost above 100k miles, but they lack personality and Rover ability (Without being pretentious). Feel free to read the other manufactures forums listed above, I think you'll find we enjoy lower repair bills and a bit more reliability.
As a new comer, If you don't need Rovers ability off pavement, you should reevaluate your needs. Maybe the AWD Rav4 Limited? Unless of course you've always wanted one, in that case. Welcome.
If you don't mind getting dirty, own a good set of tools, including jack stands, floor jack, spending time searching the internet for solutions, these are rather enjoyable to work on. Simpler than most people think.
Before 100k miles (We've gone through 2 LR3's) one, or two batteries, height sensors and regular scheduled maintenance. Above 100k, alternator, starter, cowl below wind screen twice.
Its better but they are in the same class. Lets not forget that the LR3/4 is Land Rover's utility/off roader and not in the same "league" as the Range Rover..
Grand Cherokee's are capable/Luxury so putting them in the same category as a LR3/4 isn't an insult to Land Rover. Jeep is also "our" only off road oriented car maker so it draws natural comparisons.
I owned a 2005 Grand Cherokee with a Hemi and Quadradrive II system and it that thing was every bit as capable as my LR3(Grand Cherokee has front and rear LSD that basically function as lockers).. It was also very fast with the hemi compared to a LR3.
The LR3 suspension is just so much better. The articulation and soft ride both on road and off is amazing.
The engine although not all that powerful is very smooth which makes it feel refined vs brute force.
Also can't beat the 3 row/interior dimensions.
Back on topic..
130k miles here(only owned for 4k miles).
In that timeframe.
Front window clip/regulator. This is so annoying as the regulator is just fine but the plastic clips broke.. Guess how land rover sells those? Must buy it with the whole window glass even though the just bolt to the glass.. Just stupid.
Broken rear brake pipe/line due to corrosion. Fixed by cutting, flaring, and replacing corroded part back to caliper.
Brake wear indicator went wrong so I just cut/soldered the wires together making a circuit.
Hood sensor for the alarm went wrong as well and I did the same thing as above(soldered).
Random suspension faults here and there. I ride alot of mud and think it interferes with the lift rod sensors. I also got a new battery and that solved most of it(very voltage sensitive).
Lug nuts are separating the chrome cover from the nuts due to rust.
TPMS sensor on the spare wheel went bad due to corrosion. I just used the IIdtool to disable the TPMS system all together.
Most of these things were wrong when I bought it and fixing the previous owners problems. Also nothing left me stranded, minor stuff and easy to fix.
All that being said I flushed all fluids including the transfer case and transmission.. That alone would cost big money if done by a mechanic.
#8
05-22-2016, 11:53 AM
Pro Wrench
Austrian Grande Cherokee
Your comments on the Grande Cherokee are quite valid.
Even more interesting, is that in Europe, the GC is perhaps a better Chick Magnet than any Ferrari or Maserati etc.
I base that on my observations of a few years back when I was sitting at a sidewalk table of a street cafe in Cannes across from the old Cannes Film Festival building - the one with the big set of red carpeted steps you see in the pictures.
Briefly, there was a turn about right in front of my table where guys cruising the Croisette could turn around and head back for another run at the chicks.
What I determined is the GC's seemed to attract the best girls, (and more than one because of the back seat), as from the lofty heights of the Cherokee, one could look down on the drivers of the Ferrari's. The girls seemed to like that.
Also the Cherokee had the cachet that it was a "foreign" car from America even though it was probably built by Magna in their Austrian factory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Steyr
Yes, there were 3's there as well, but not cruising I am sorry to say.
Even more interesting, is that in Europe, the GC is perhaps a better Chick Magnet than any Ferrari or Maserati etc.
I base that on my observations of a few years back when I was sitting at a sidewalk table of a street cafe in Cannes across from the old Cannes Film Festival building - the one with the big set of red carpeted steps you see in the pictures.
Briefly, there was a turn about right in front of my table where guys cruising the Croisette could turn around and head back for another run at the chicks.
What I determined is the GC's seemed to attract the best girls, (and more than one because of the back seat), as from the lofty heights of the Cherokee, one could look down on the drivers of the Ferrari's. The girls seemed to like that.
Also the Cherokee had the cachet that it was a "foreign" car from America even though it was probably built by Magna in their Austrian factory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Steyr
Yes, there were 3's there as well, but not cruising I am sorry to say.
#9
05-22-2016, 02:25 PM
When you talk cowl replacement and leaking, I get a bit puzzled.
If the concern is the intersection of the windscreen and the top of the cowl and that a gap due to warping of the cowl plastic opens up, my solution was a strip of black 3M electrical tape. I might add that a gap due to warping only really matters directly above the heater air inlet on the "passenger side".
The link below relates to cowl replacement, but the jpg of interest is the one showing the air opening down into the heater area. That is where volumes of water can come. Some shield that opening with a piece of metal to deflect dripping water. The general feeling is that the condition of the intersection of the windscreen glass and the top of cowling is not a great concern unless one lives in a tropical rain area.
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Upcoming project
Regarding a direct fair comparison to the LR3/4/Discovery3/4, my thinking is that the Mercedes G Wagon is the only candidate.
The far east production tend to be lower technology vehicles on perhaps strengthened pickup frames. Mechanical reliability tends to be higher and repair costs lower due to the use of older long proven "technology" of of course, reduced ability. The Prado vehicles are the best example of this. Solid axles, limited electronics, few creature comforts, and old engine designs do work well in third world markets.
The G Wagon is a best comparison in that frame and body wise, it is probably stronger than the LR series; the engines are perhaps more reliable than the LR engines and the drive trains and suspension, less sophisticated, hence less prone to trouble.
The reason I bring up Jeep is that the original Series Land Rovers were based on the Willey's Jeep. Jeep in my mind is still the best value 4x4.
If Fiat got serious about it, they could sell Jeep products world wide and give the far east guys a good run. At the same time, I am not certain I would want to be the supplier of motor products to the terrorists of the world. I guess it is just business.
If the concern is the intersection of the windscreen and the top of the cowl and that a gap due to warping of the cowl plastic opens up, my solution was a strip of black 3M electrical tape. I might add that a gap due to warping only really matters directly above the heater air inlet on the "passenger side".
The link below relates to cowl replacement, but the jpg of interest is the one showing the air opening down into the heater area. That is where volumes of water can come. Some shield that opening with a piece of metal to deflect dripping water. The general feeling is that the condition of the intersection of the windscreen glass and the top of cowling is not a great concern unless one lives in a tropical rain area.
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Upcoming project
Regarding a direct fair comparison to the LR3/4/Discovery3/4, my thinking is that the Mercedes G Wagon is the only candidate.
The far east production tend to be lower technology vehicles on perhaps strengthened pickup frames. Mechanical reliability tends to be higher and repair costs lower due to the use of older long proven "technology" of of course, reduced ability. The Prado vehicles are the best example of this. Solid axles, limited electronics, few creature comforts, and old engine designs do work well in third world markets.
The G Wagon is a best comparison in that frame and body wise, it is probably stronger than the LR series; the engines are perhaps more reliable than the LR engines and the drive trains and suspension, less sophisticated, hence less prone to trouble.
The reason I bring up Jeep is that the original Series Land Rovers were based on the Willey's Jeep. Jeep in my mind is still the best value 4x4.
If Fiat got serious about it, they could sell Jeep products world wide and give the far east guys a good run. At the same time, I am not certain I would want to be the supplier of motor products to the terrorists of the world. I guess it is just business.
ps: I agree with you the G wagon is the best comparison ..they both have the same driving/weight feel
I was able to purchase an '06 LR3 for $5K and love it ...just having this leak dilemma to resolve...All drain hoses are clear/unclogged ...just getting water inside pass floor while driving in rain!
#10
05-22-2016, 02:57 PM
Camel Trophy
I am going to disagree with you guys in a few sub-topics.
The Grand Cherokee is a nice vehicle. Nothing wrong with it. However, it is NOWHERE NEAR the LR3 in terms of capability. An LSD is NOT the same as a locker, sorry. If you want to really compare them then you have to consider angles, clearance, crawl ratio, wheel travel (articulation) and then the sophistication of the electronic systems since both vehicles use them. The LR3 is worlds ahead.
bbyer, I respect the hell out of you but if you think a JGC attracts better chicks than a Land Rover I think you're in the wrong part of town.
Also, I don't necessarily disagree on the G-Wagen being a strong chassis, but I have no reason to accept conjecture that it's stronger (structurally) than the LR3. Afterall, the LR3 has a full boxed frame AND a unibody on top of that. Essentially a double-frame. To the best of my knowledge, the G does not. I know that the sheet metal used on the G is a bit thicker than industry standards...but I'm pretty sure it sits on one frame. So...that statement would have to be substantiated further before I buy into it. Off-road I think the two (stock v stock) would be very comparable.
As for the Cowl....that warping annoys the heck out of me but it's not so bad (in my case) that I am going to get a new one unless I can be assured that it would be less prone to warping. Maybe I could use some kind of adhesive on the new one but if I ever needed to change the windshield that sort of screws up that approach. Maybe I'll wait until I need a new windshield then do them both....I have added a shield to the water ingress points for me it's just cosmetic...and again mine isn't very bad, only my eyes would be drawn to it.
122k Miles...all the standard replacements plus a couple diffs. Oh...front swaybar end link too. I have the AMK compressor but overall I think the vehicle is better now than it was in 2005 in terms of reliability. I've uprated some parts and addressed weak points. It looks, feels and performs like new. Still smells awesome, too.
The Grand Cherokee is a nice vehicle. Nothing wrong with it. However, it is NOWHERE NEAR the LR3 in terms of capability. An LSD is NOT the same as a locker, sorry. If you want to really compare them then you have to consider angles, clearance, crawl ratio, wheel travel (articulation) and then the sophistication of the electronic systems since both vehicles use them. The LR3 is worlds ahead.
bbyer, I respect the hell out of you but if you think a JGC attracts better chicks than a Land Rover I think you're in the wrong part of town.
Also, I don't necessarily disagree on the G-Wagen being a strong chassis, but I have no reason to accept conjecture that it's stronger (structurally) than the LR3. Afterall, the LR3 has a full boxed frame AND a unibody on top of that. Essentially a double-frame. To the best of my knowledge, the G does not. I know that the sheet metal used on the G is a bit thicker than industry standards...but I'm pretty sure it sits on one frame. So...that statement would have to be substantiated further before I buy into it. Off-road I think the two (stock v stock) would be very comparable.
As for the Cowl....that warping annoys the heck out of me but it's not so bad (in my case) that I am going to get a new one unless I can be assured that it would be less prone to warping. Maybe I could use some kind of adhesive on the new one but if I ever needed to change the windshield that sort of screws up that approach. Maybe I'll wait until I need a new windshield then do them both....I have added a shield to the water ingress points for me it's just cosmetic...and again mine isn't very bad, only my eyes would be drawn to it.
122k Miles...all the standard replacements plus a couple diffs. Oh...front swaybar end link too. I have the AMK compressor but overall I think the vehicle is better now than it was in 2005 in terms of reliability. I've uprated some parts and addressed weak points. It looks, feels and performs like new. Still smells awesome, too.
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bbyer (05-22-2016)