lr3 Communication Errors CAN BUS??
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Overlanding
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 24
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lr3 Communication Errors CAN BUS??
I think I have a CAN BUS problem. How do I sort it out????
My daughter's 2007 LR3 HSE 4.4l 257,000 miles (California car, absolutely spotless, no wrecks or dings, never leaked any fluids, never off road), has been causing some problems. I wrote down all the codes, cleared them, drove it 5 miles, recorded the codes and cleared, drove another 3 miles and recorded the codes as follows:
Initial codes:
P0504 (brake switch A/B correlation) curious because we had this replaced 3 months ago
U0416 (invalid data vehicle dynamic control module)
C1A96 (brake switch light circuit)
U0132 (loss communication with ride level control module)
U0159 (loss communication with park assist module)
U0155 (loss communication with instrument cluster control module)
The standard other codes that all LR3's have -- B1b02, B1BA0, B1c57, B1c62 and B1D12 have always been there
First 5 miles:
U0155 (loss communication with instrument cluster control module)
U0159 (loss communication with park assist module)
The standard other codes that all LR3's have -- B1b02, B1BA0, B1c57, B1c62
Second 5 miles:
U0155 (loss communication with instrument cluster control module)
U0132 (loss communication with ride level control module)
U0159 (loss communication with park assist module)
The standard other codes that all LR3's have -- B1b02, B1BA0, B1c57, B1c62
The car seems to drive OK in town but on the freeway, after about 5 miles, I get the three amigos (brake and the two other lights), it says Transmission Error, HDC Fault, limited gears available, lowering suspension. If I pull over, remove the key, open and shut the door, restart it, everything goes back to normal for another 5 miles on the freeway. All gears shift fine, manual shift is fine.
About 6 months ago, I pulled the battery and checked the connectors and control module that is stuffed below the battery. It was absolutely spotless. We then brought it to an INDY because of the three amigos. They replaced a transmission selector motor, brake light switch, brake light bulbs, repaired the two roof water drains and we were down the road for several hundred dollars. While it was there, they said that the front air bag was leaking. We had both front struts replaced and the alignment performed. Well, those three Amigos started appearing almost immediately. That INDY claims it is "probably" the rear diff locking motor but they want several hundred dollars to sort it out. I pulled the diff motor and checked it internally. It was spotless and did not show any signs of wear.
How would I go about sorting the CAN buss and where are the common issues?? Also, we did not have a brake switch issue until after INDY replaced it. I read somewhere that although the LR4 switch fits, the timing of the two on/off and off/on sections is slightly off compared to the LR3 switch and it can cause the brake switch code. Anyone know more about that?
I am thinking it is more along the lines of a CAN BUS problem based on the codes that first re-appear after reset.
My daughter's 2007 LR3 HSE 4.4l 257,000 miles (California car, absolutely spotless, no wrecks or dings, never leaked any fluids, never off road), has been causing some problems. I wrote down all the codes, cleared them, drove it 5 miles, recorded the codes and cleared, drove another 3 miles and recorded the codes as follows:
Initial codes:
P0504 (brake switch A/B correlation) curious because we had this replaced 3 months ago
U0416 (invalid data vehicle dynamic control module)
C1A96 (brake switch light circuit)
U0132 (loss communication with ride level control module)
U0159 (loss communication with park assist module)
U0155 (loss communication with instrument cluster control module)
The standard other codes that all LR3's have -- B1b02, B1BA0, B1c57, B1c62 and B1D12 have always been there
First 5 miles:
U0155 (loss communication with instrument cluster control module)
U0159 (loss communication with park assist module)
The standard other codes that all LR3's have -- B1b02, B1BA0, B1c57, B1c62
Second 5 miles:
U0155 (loss communication with instrument cluster control module)
U0132 (loss communication with ride level control module)
U0159 (loss communication with park assist module)
The standard other codes that all LR3's have -- B1b02, B1BA0, B1c57, B1c62
The car seems to drive OK in town but on the freeway, after about 5 miles, I get the three amigos (brake and the two other lights), it says Transmission Error, HDC Fault, limited gears available, lowering suspension. If I pull over, remove the key, open and shut the door, restart it, everything goes back to normal for another 5 miles on the freeway. All gears shift fine, manual shift is fine.
About 6 months ago, I pulled the battery and checked the connectors and control module that is stuffed below the battery. It was absolutely spotless. We then brought it to an INDY because of the three amigos. They replaced a transmission selector motor, brake light switch, brake light bulbs, repaired the two roof water drains and we were down the road for several hundred dollars. While it was there, they said that the front air bag was leaking. We had both front struts replaced and the alignment performed. Well, those three Amigos started appearing almost immediately. That INDY claims it is "probably" the rear diff locking motor but they want several hundred dollars to sort it out. I pulled the diff motor and checked it internally. It was spotless and did not show any signs of wear.
How would I go about sorting the CAN buss and where are the common issues?? Also, we did not have a brake switch issue until after INDY replaced it. I read somewhere that although the LR4 switch fits, the timing of the two on/off and off/on sections is slightly off compared to the LR3 switch and it can cause the brake switch code. Anyone know more about that?
I am thinking it is more along the lines of a CAN BUS problem based on the codes that first re-appear after reset.
The "invalid serial data" and "loss of communications" are usually the result of another fault and is how the related systems are disabled. Since you have a brake light switch fault, other systems that need the status of that switch are disabled.
You mentioned a rear diff lock motor could cause that. Are you sure you have one? Rare option that I have seen. Although it can cause the same faults, I don't see a specific fault for it in your list.
I would start with a correct brake light switch, and also check ALL the rear bulbs. I have seen bad bulbs and incorrect bulbs cause a Brake Switch Error.
Once you get the brake switch fault sorted, then clear all the codes, the serial data and communications faults will likely not come back.
You mentioned a rear diff lock motor could cause that. Are you sure you have one? Rare option that I have seen. Although it can cause the same faults, I don't see a specific fault for it in your list.
I would start with a correct brake light switch, and also check ALL the rear bulbs. I have seen bad bulbs and incorrect bulbs cause a Brake Switch Error.
Once you get the brake switch fault sorted, then clear all the codes, the serial data and communications faults will likely not come back.
Thread Starter
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Overlanding
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 3
The "invalid serial data" and "loss of communications" are usually the result of another fault and is how the related systems are disabled. Since you have a brake light switch fault, other systems that need the status of that switch are disabled.
You mentioned a rear diff lock motor could cause that. Are you sure you have one? Rare option that I have seen. Although it can cause the same faults, I don't see a specific fault for it in your list.
I would start with a correct brake light switch, and also check ALL the rear bulbs. I have seen bad bulbs and incorrect bulbs cause a Brake Switch Error.
Once you get the brake switch fault sorted, then clear all the codes, the serial data and communications faults will likely not come back.
You mentioned a rear diff lock motor could cause that. Are you sure you have one? Rare option that I have seen. Although it can cause the same faults, I don't see a specific fault for it in your list.
I would start with a correct brake light switch, and also check ALL the rear bulbs. I have seen bad bulbs and incorrect bulbs cause a Brake Switch Error.
Once you get the brake switch fault sorted, then clear all the codes, the serial data and communications faults will likely not come back.
I will also replace the battery that has been in there since 9/2015 and reads 12.41 after sitting over night. Yes this does have the rear locking motor. I pulled it without too much trouble by removing the spare tire and then I worked the emissions box out of the way. From there, the screws for the locking motor were not too bad to remove and the unit came out through where the emission box was located.
This morning, I pulled the instrument cluster just to check for obvious issues -- none found. I then pulled each relay in the fuse box next to the battery. The coils all had about the same resistance and the contacts were normally open. I decided to shift the locations of the relays to see if that exercised any demons to other locations. Well, I got an almost immediate P0111 and P0116. I suspect I got those because the sun was shining on the MAF and probably created at least part of the issue. I then drove the car and got an immediate suspension fault and message that only normal ride height was available. I actually got a chuckle about it. I will now go back and energize each relay and check for resistance on the contacts. I suspect I moved a bad relay and created the fault. (About 2 years ago I rebuilt the compressor (cylinder and bearings), installed new dryer, billet dryer cover, and new air valves.)
Thread Starter
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Overlanding
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 3
More info--- Had battery/charging system checked They claim battery is fine and charging system is fine. I questioned the 70 Mv ripple but they insist anything less than 100 Mv is fine. Just wondering if anyone has had experience with how much ripple the LR3 can digest before it spits out demons.
Also checked the pins on OBD port. batt voltage between pin 3 and 11 is 12,41 Resistance between pins 3 and 11 measured 57.5 ohms (I believe spec is 60) checks of pin 3 to ground, 11 to ground and between 11 and 16 were all open (no shorts) So looks line the CAN Bus ohms is ok between instrument panel and central junction box.
waiting on brake switch and new p21/5 rear bulbs
Also checked the pins on OBD port. batt voltage between pin 3 and 11 is 12,41 Resistance between pins 3 and 11 measured 57.5 ohms (I believe spec is 60) checks of pin 3 to ground, 11 to ground and between 11 and 16 were all open (no shorts) So looks line the CAN Bus ohms is ok between instrument panel and central junction box.
waiting on brake switch and new p21/5 rear bulbs
Yes, spec for "most" CAN buses is 60 Ohms (two 120 Ohm terminating resistors in parallel) I wouldn't think this would be your issue though, because usually when there is an open/short to change the resistance, that means the CAN is completely down and the vehicle probably doesn't start.
However I must say, your process is very thorough, more so than may techs who do this for a living. LOL
However I must say, your process is very thorough, more so than may techs who do this for a living. LOL
Thread Starter
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Overlanding
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 3
I guess I am just frustrated and don't want to give up. LR3 is beautiful but for the demons. Trade in value is $900 Heck I paid 1100 for tires last month.
BTW Phillips P21/5 bulbs measure 2.8-2.9 ohms and .8-.9 ohms Osrams measure 2.8 ohms and 1.1 ohms. Changing the bulbs made zero difference other than adding a new code, from the ABS C1A00.
Should have brake switch by Friday.
What about the electrical suppressor on the engine fuel rail LR004160 and the one on the transmission LR020488? If those condensers leak or break down will that send enough dirty signal into the CAN to create these issues?
I also have a 2004 D2 SE7. I conquered most of those demons with the help of this site over the years -- except for one oil leak but telling myself that the oil keeps the undercarriage protected keeps me sane.
BTW Phillips P21/5 bulbs measure 2.8-2.9 ohms and .8-.9 ohms Osrams measure 2.8 ohms and 1.1 ohms. Changing the bulbs made zero difference other than adding a new code, from the ABS C1A00.
Should have brake switch by Friday.
What about the electrical suppressor on the engine fuel rail LR004160 and the one on the transmission LR020488? If those condensers leak or break down will that send enough dirty signal into the CAN to create these issues?
I also have a 2004 D2 SE7. I conquered most of those demons with the help of this site over the years -- except for one oil leak but telling myself that the oil keeps the undercarriage protected keeps me sane.
Thread Starter
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Overlanding
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 3
Update:
Received and installed new brake light switch and reset all codes.
Drove car about 1/4 mile and got a code for left front outer distance sensor. I have seen this code before but not for the past several months. Reset code and it reappeared in about 15 seconds.
It will go a few miles before showing U0132 and U0159 on Instrument Cluster Module
When in Drive, almost every gear, I see the Tach drifting up and down about 200-300 rpm. If I put the car into the manual select mode, the drifting seems to go away or is not really noticeable.
Other wierd thing after having car aligned and new front struts installed, the car wants to oversteer with a slight steering input. I monitored the cross-link valve status and it says open 0%. Ride height voltages do vary with the right rear being slightly less voltage than all the others but all are different.
I will get it on the highway for 20 or so miles hopefully tonight and see what happens
Received and installed new brake light switch and reset all codes.
Drove car about 1/4 mile and got a code for left front outer distance sensor. I have seen this code before but not for the past several months. Reset code and it reappeared in about 15 seconds.
It will go a few miles before showing U0132 and U0159 on Instrument Cluster Module
When in Drive, almost every gear, I see the Tach drifting up and down about 200-300 rpm. If I put the car into the manual select mode, the drifting seems to go away or is not really noticeable.
Other wierd thing after having car aligned and new front struts installed, the car wants to oversteer with a slight steering input. I monitored the cross-link valve status and it says open 0%. Ride height voltages do vary with the right rear being slightly less voltage than all the others but all are different.
I will get it on the highway for 20 or so miles hopefully tonight and see what happens
Thread Starter
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Overlanding
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 3
Update:
All of the dash lights are back at it. HDC Fault, Transmission Fault, etc.
ABS Module C1A00 control module
Instrument Pack U0132 Loss communication with ride level control module
U0159 Loss communication with parking assist control module
Ride Level CM U0416 Invalid data from vehicle dynamic control module
U0073 Control Module Communication Bus OFF
Terrain CM U0416 Invalid data from vehicle dynamic control module
U0421 Invalid data from ride level control module
Body CM U0155 Loss communication with Instrument Cluster control module
Park Assist CM B1B36 RF outer sensor
What do I go after now? CAN Bus OFF seems like an issue.
All of the dash lights are back at it. HDC Fault, Transmission Fault, etc.
ABS Module C1A00 control module
Instrument Pack U0132 Loss communication with ride level control module
U0159 Loss communication with parking assist control module
Ride Level CM U0416 Invalid data from vehicle dynamic control module
U0073 Control Module Communication Bus OFF
Terrain CM U0416 Invalid data from vehicle dynamic control module
U0421 Invalid data from ride level control module
Body CM U0155 Loss communication with Instrument Cluster control module
Park Assist CM B1B36 RF outer sensor
What do I go after now? CAN Bus OFF seems like an issue.
Mudding
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 100
Likes: 19
From: Portland, OR
This just popped up on the BMW forum I read: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF3s...ature=youtu.be
Kind of long, but perhaps relevant to your issues. Using his process as a model, I would find a scope to put on your CANbus lines to assess the signal quality. Then perhaps unplug modules one by one if you find issues. I have no idea if the LR3 has multiple CAN circuits like the BMW or if it's just one.
Hope this helps.
Kind of long, but perhaps relevant to your issues. Using his process as a model, I would find a scope to put on your CANbus lines to assess the signal quality. Then perhaps unplug modules one by one if you find issues. I have no idea if the LR3 has multiple CAN circuits like the BMW or if it's just one.
Hope this helps.
