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Old Jul 20, 2017 | 03:25 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by houm_wa
Let's add to that. If there is a center differential that locks, or ANY mechanism that locks torque equally between front and rear axles, then it's a 4WD.

For example the LR3 has no selection between AWD and 4WD but the center diff locks and when it does, it's a traditional (part time) 4WD. By way of contrast, the Acura MDX is AWD and cannot lock torque between front and rear either manually or automatically. It is an AWD.

So the statement above "4wd is selectable between 2wd and 4wd with no differential in the transfer case" is inaccurate.
I think you're splitting hairs here. The key to the statement is no differential in the transfer case. I pulled this from edmunds:

All-Wheel Drive (AWD): A drivetrain that employs a front, rear and center differential to provide power to all four wheels of a vehicle.

Four-Wheel Drive (4WD): A drivetrain that employs two differentials and a transfer case to provide power to all four wheels of a vehicle.

If a vehicle can drive with all 4 wheels receiving some amount of torque on PAVEMENT without damage, I argue, it's AWD. True, the LR3 has a more traditional transfer case than a Haldex type system mentioned and technically a center diff lock makes it behave like a 4wd, but it's still an AWD vehicle. I would not call an '03 Discovery AWD and an '04 Discovery 4wd despite the later having a center diff lock. Tomato, tomato I guess. Sorry to hijack, but schwaggy asked!
 
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Old Jul 20, 2017 | 05:22 PM
  #12  
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Trust me...I'm the guy you want splitting hairs. I make airplanes for a living!

Maybe we can agree that the LR3 is BOTH AWD and 4WD. Maybe the center diff is there to make it AWD and the T-Case is there to make it a 4WD....and Edmunds didn't account for a vehicle having both.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2017 | 05:44 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by houm_wa
Trust me...I'm the guy you want splitting hairs. I make airplanes for a living!

Maybe we can agree that the LR3 is BOTH AWD and 4WD. Maybe the center diff is there to make it AWD and the T-Case is there to make it a 4WD....and Edmunds didn't account for a vehicle having both.
I am speaking in a general sense here. If you want to dig that deep into the realm of auto nerdom, is ANY vehicle 4x4 unless it's locked front, center and rear?
 

Last edited by m_lars; Jul 21, 2017 at 06:22 AM.
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Old Jul 21, 2017 | 09:58 AM
  #14  
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It's generally understood that "4x4" does not mean all 4 wheels get torque.

...and I'm not really digging that deep. A 4WD locks torque equally between the front and rear axle, in a general sense. Does the LR3 do that? Yes.

...it just happens to have a center diff and a transfer case, which is a configuration not covered by the definition Edmunds gave. So it's an outlier.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2017 | 01:36 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by houm_wa
It's generally understood that "4x4" does not mean all 4 wheels get torque.

...and I'm not really digging that deep. A 4WD locks torque equally between the front and rear axle, in a general sense. Does the LR3 do that? Yes.

...it just happens to have a center diff and a transfer case, which is a configuration not covered by the definition Edmunds gave. So it's an outlier.
The 4x4 comment was hyperbole. I say you're digging deep because you're calling it 4x4 on a technicality. As I said, I was speaking generally, responding to schmally's general question: "Wondering about the semantics here... Isn't AWD different than (true) 4WD?" and you are (intentionally?) missing my point. You are correct, the LR3 is a bit of an outlier. As are the Disco I, '04 Disco II and Toyota Land Cruiser (80 series, probably other series) in that they are permenant AWD drivetrains with an option to lock the center diff. AWD is permanently on which is possible because it has a center diff (or viscous coupling, or haldex unit). 4x4 is temporary because when engaged, there is only a solid connection between front and rear. It can't be driven on road without eventual damage. We could argue on and on about the nuances of each particular type of AWD system, but generally speaking AWD is permanent and 4x4 is temporary. Yes, the LR3 can temporarily be locked, but it's permanent AWD because you can't disable the drive to the front wheels. So to answer the opening question: No, the LR3 is not a 4x4. It's AWD with the caveat of a center diff lock.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2017 | 10:07 PM
  #16  
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Here is the thing...I agree with a lot of what you say. The one thing that I don't agree with is the assertion that AWD and 4x4 have to be mutually exclusive. I don't think that 4x4 is necessarily temporary. I think the ONLY real definable characteristic of "4x4" is equal torque front and rear. The LR3 does that. Hence it's a 4x4 when it's locked; and an AWD when it is not.

It is not, I'll agree, a traditional 4x4 drivetrain.
 

Last edited by houm_wa; Jul 21, 2017 at 11:33 PM.
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Old Jul 22, 2017 | 04:28 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by houm_wa
Here is the thing...I agree with a lot of what you say. The one thing that I don't agree with is the assertion that AWD and 4x4 have to be mutually exclusive. I don't think that 4x4 is necessarily temporary. I think the ONLY real definable characteristic of "4x4" is equal torque front and rear. The LR3 does that. Hence it's a 4x4 when it's locked; and an AWD when it is not.

It is not, I'll agree, a traditional 4x4 drivetrain.
Dude, I give up. You are complicating a simple question. If you had to say it's one or the other, but not both, to someone who doesn't understand the nuances you are arguing, what's your answer? With that, I concede, you win. You are right. You're King of the Lab.

However... 4x4, as you define it as equal torque to front and rear, is ABSOLUTELY temporary on a STREET DRIVEN vehicle. You can not drive on dry pavement in 4x4 without eventually damaging some part of the drivetrain. Every turn you make the front wheels travel a longer distance than the rear causing it to bind up. Best case scenario, you destroy your tires because they are constantly slipping to make up the difference. Worst case, the weakest part of the system fails and you're stuck on the side of the road. Would damage happen immediately, no. Feel free to test how long it takes to fail.

I will now move on, to the relief of everyone, and continue my research to decide which model will be my next Land Rover.
 
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Old Jul 23, 2017 | 02:31 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by m_lars
Dude, I give up. You are complicating a simple question. If you had to say it's one or the other, but not both, to someone who doesn't understand the nuances you are arguing, what's your answer? With that, I concede, you win. You are right. You're King of the Lab.

However... 4x4, as you define it as equal torque to front and rear, is ABSOLUTELY temporary on a STREET DRIVEN vehicle. You can not drive on dry pavement in 4x4 without eventually damaging some part of the drivetrain. Every turn you make the front wheels travel a longer distance than the rear causing it to bind up. Best case scenario, you destroy your tires because they are constantly slipping to make up the difference. Worst case, the weakest part of the system fails and you're stuck on the side of the road. Would damage happen immediately, no. Feel free to test how long it takes to fail.

I will now move on, to the relief of everyone, and continue my research to decide which model will be my next Land Rover.
I agree with all above. I am not sure how I'd answer the question of "one of the other but not both" because the LR3 IS BOTH, in my mind. That's why we are arguing this...it's not an easy answer. I'll agree that it is not a traditional 4x4 but has the ability to operate in 4WD and AWD.
 
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