Radio/Nav issue
#1
05-10-2015, 03:17 PM
Radio/Nav issue
Hey guys, I have got an odd problem and need some input...
I have an 06 LR3, and for the last year or so I have been having some odd issues with the radio. The Aux, AM, and FM inputs would not do anything. Aux would crackle every once in a while, and the AM and FM would give a really loud high pitched squeak every so often.
I ended up going out of town on work and left it in the airport parking lot for two weeks. When I got back the battery was dead as a doornail. Got it jumped off and running, and low and behold for the first time in a LONG time the missing inputs worked.
So, a couple of months later, I guess I ran it down a bit too low and had to jump it again. When it was getting low, the head unit shut off with a low power message. When I started it up again, the inputs were gone again. So, I ran the battery all the way down and left it like that for a few hours (just disconnecting the battery didnt seem to do the trick as I had tried that earlier) and jumped it off, inputs back.
No problem for a couple of months, the a few days ago I got home and shut the car off, and the head unit and nav screen died. Ever since, I get nothing at all from the nav screen or the radio, no power at all.
I checked the fuses, all ok. So, today I dug in a bit more to see if I could figure it out.
It appears that there is no power getting to the fuse socket under the glove box. The other fuses have power, but 58 for the "infotainment and radio" doesn't seem to have any power at all, which would explain why the radio wont work. But where is the power going? Checked the fuseable links in the engine compartment and all of them are ok. Would the relay cause that? From some stuff I have read it shouldn't but I don't know...
Anybody have any ideas? Where should I check next?
THANKS!
I have an 06 LR3, and for the last year or so I have been having some odd issues with the radio. The Aux, AM, and FM inputs would not do anything. Aux would crackle every once in a while, and the AM and FM would give a really loud high pitched squeak every so often.
I ended up going out of town on work and left it in the airport parking lot for two weeks. When I got back the battery was dead as a doornail. Got it jumped off and running, and low and behold for the first time in a LONG time the missing inputs worked.
So, a couple of months later, I guess I ran it down a bit too low and had to jump it again. When it was getting low, the head unit shut off with a low power message. When I started it up again, the inputs were gone again. So, I ran the battery all the way down and left it like that for a few hours (just disconnecting the battery didnt seem to do the trick as I had tried that earlier) and jumped it off, inputs back.
No problem for a couple of months, the a few days ago I got home and shut the car off, and the head unit and nav screen died. Ever since, I get nothing at all from the nav screen or the radio, no power at all.
I checked the fuses, all ok. So, today I dug in a bit more to see if I could figure it out.
It appears that there is no power getting to the fuse socket under the glove box. The other fuses have power, but 58 for the "infotainment and radio" doesn't seem to have any power at all, which would explain why the radio wont work. But where is the power going? Checked the fuseable links in the engine compartment and all of them are ok. Would the relay cause that? From some stuff I have read it shouldn't but I don't know...
Anybody have any ideas? Where should I check next?
THANKS!
#2
05-10-2015, 11:06 PM
Pro Wrench
power drain somewhere
The link below is to a number of files I have related to the infotainment system. I do not think that they will help you however.
I think you have to do this the hard way.
You have I think a power drain "somewhere' that is giving you a low battery and the energy saver systems are shutting the radio amp etc down to save power.
I found my power drain to be the display not shutting off in my overhead back seat video player. Finding it was tedious to say the least.
DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - NAV Radio BlueTooth phone and Rosen DVD
Start by trying to determine if when all systems are shut down, what the amp draw off the battery is. That is difficult as the hood has to be shut or at least you have to play with the bonnet switch to fool the systems into thinking all is shut down so your 3 can go to sleep and all the doors be locked.
Take an amp meter reading, (I suggest on the ground side of the battery - safer that way, but on the hot side is OK as well), when your 3 is asleep.
The amp draw when sleeping should not exceed 0.5 amps - should be less actually but a number much bigger than that suggests some system is not shutting down. In other words, you should be able to park your 3 for a couple of weeks and the battery should still be good. Airports can be tricky as the parkades can vibrate about due to aircraft takeoffs or just structural movement and that can wake up the 3 but for the most part, you should not have a dead battery as a matter of routine.
Apparently a defective rear hatch switch can keep the systems alive and that is near impossible to find.
Also start recording battery voltage at engine shutdown and prior to engine start in the morning.
In a perfect world, the shutdown voltage should be at least 12.7 volts and in the morning, at least 12.4 VDC. If the numbers are lower than that, then put the battery on a trickle charger each night for a week or two. I use a CTEK US3300 unit as a matter of routine. If the battery is low, the charging system can never seem to catch up.
My reason for suggesting above is that you are doing all this in part to figure out if you have an electrical system problem, as I suspect you do, and not a radio problem. The fact the radio works well for some time and then quits suggests a result, rather than a radio problem.
The F58P fuse failure is a hint of where the problem is, but I would do it the hard way as above before I started tearing things apart.
I think you have to do this the hard way.
You have I think a power drain "somewhere' that is giving you a low battery and the energy saver systems are shutting the radio amp etc down to save power.
I found my power drain to be the display not shutting off in my overhead back seat video player. Finding it was tedious to say the least.
DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - NAV Radio BlueTooth phone and Rosen DVD
Start by trying to determine if when all systems are shut down, what the amp draw off the battery is. That is difficult as the hood has to be shut or at least you have to play with the bonnet switch to fool the systems into thinking all is shut down so your 3 can go to sleep and all the doors be locked.
Take an amp meter reading, (I suggest on the ground side of the battery - safer that way, but on the hot side is OK as well), when your 3 is asleep.
The amp draw when sleeping should not exceed 0.5 amps - should be less actually but a number much bigger than that suggests some system is not shutting down. In other words, you should be able to park your 3 for a couple of weeks and the battery should still be good. Airports can be tricky as the parkades can vibrate about due to aircraft takeoffs or just structural movement and that can wake up the 3 but for the most part, you should not have a dead battery as a matter of routine.
Apparently a defective rear hatch switch can keep the systems alive and that is near impossible to find.
Also start recording battery voltage at engine shutdown and prior to engine start in the morning.
In a perfect world, the shutdown voltage should be at least 12.7 volts and in the morning, at least 12.4 VDC. If the numbers are lower than that, then put the battery on a trickle charger each night for a week or two. I use a CTEK US3300 unit as a matter of routine. If the battery is low, the charging system can never seem to catch up.
My reason for suggesting above is that you are doing all this in part to figure out if you have an electrical system problem, as I suspect you do, and not a radio problem. The fact the radio works well for some time and then quits suggests a result, rather than a radio problem.
The F58P fuse failure is a hint of where the problem is, but I would do it the hard way as above before I started tearing things apart.
#3
05-11-2015, 07:15 PM
Well... I took some time today and swapped the relay out, no help there... that whole thing begs another question though, how in the hell are you supposed to be able to get at that relay or those bottom fuses? I ripped half the interior out and am no closer to being able to get to it... would be nice to be able to get in there and check voltage and so on for those terminals.
Anyway, as I said, no power on 58, but 53 does... the stranger thing to me though is that there is no continuity to ground either, and on 53 there is.
I will check the voltages and see what I get and will have to grab a watt meter...
Anyway, as I said, no power on 58, but 53 does... the stranger thing to me though is that there is no continuity to ground either, and on 53 there is.
I will check the voltages and see what I get and will have to grab a watt meter...
#4
05-11-2015, 11:39 PM
Pro Wrench
check 10 amp fuse F56P
I looked on a wiring diagram I have and noted what I suppose is a typo but check 10 amp fuse F56P and see if it is alive or not.
The reason I say F56P is that is what is typed rather than F58P per the wiring diagram link below which I believe is correct but there may have been a wiring change later in the game.
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albu...tem_wiring.pdf
Also I am not certain what relay you are referencing but I presume you know that the passenger side lower glove box door releases by pressing on the two curved arms and hence drops down backwards so the top of the door rests on the floor carpet below and hence access to the passenger side fuse box is less impossible.
This is also how you access the pollen filter located above the heater fan to change it. You remove that little door that is about one inch high and a foot long to get at the filter. I note that the filter access door is sitting on top of the fully opened glove box door.
Most relays are of the FET variety and are hard wired to the circuit board behind the fuse box. These Field Effect Transistors are not field replaceable as they are effectively invisible. It is one of the reasons there are so many fuses and most fuses do not exceed 10 amps as the solid state FETs are not good for much more than that. The few relays you do see are for 15 amp or greater circuits such as the cigarette lighter.
The reason I say F56P is that is what is typed rather than F58P per the wiring diagram link below which I believe is correct but there may have been a wiring change later in the game.
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albu...tem_wiring.pdf
Also I am not certain what relay you are referencing but I presume you know that the passenger side lower glove box door releases by pressing on the two curved arms and hence drops down backwards so the top of the door rests on the floor carpet below and hence access to the passenger side fuse box is less impossible.
This is also how you access the pollen filter located above the heater fan to change it. You remove that little door that is about one inch high and a foot long to get at the filter. I note that the filter access door is sitting on top of the fully opened glove box door.
Most relays are of the FET variety and are hard wired to the circuit board behind the fuse box. These Field Effect Transistors are not field replaceable as they are effectively invisible. It is one of the reasons there are so many fuses and most fuses do not exceed 10 amps as the solid state FETs are not good for much more than that. The few relays you do see are for 15 amp or greater circuits such as the cigarette lighter.
Last edited by bbyer; 05-11-2015 at 11:53 PM. Reason: added glove box jpg
#5
05-12-2015, 09:24 AM
For the relay, I do mean the one on the bottom of the passenger fuse box. On mine, it's down far below the level of the fully opened glove box, I tried to remove the glove box completely, but one of the screws was stripped at some point, as I turn and turn and it doesn't move out a bit... But according to the book on mine, the bottom relay in the interior fuse box is a relay for the infotainment system... about 4 inches below the level of the bar where the glove box attaches.
Anyway, I will give 56 a look when I go out for lunch and see what it looks like.
Anyway, I will give 56 a look when I go out for lunch and see what it looks like.
#6
05-12-2015, 09:48 AM
Pro Wrench
Relay R5 in the bottom right corner
I suppose you are referring to what is called up as R5 and located in the bottom right hand corner of the jpg.
Incidentally, the jumper across R1 shown is how you make your AUX sockets powered all the time and not just when the ignition is on.
I presume you have removed the horizontal panel that holds the foot well courtesy light? I think that is also how the heater fan is removed.
Incidentally, the jumper across R1 shown is how you make your AUX sockets powered all the time and not just when the ignition is on.
I presume you have removed the horizontal panel that holds the foot well courtesy light? I think that is also how the heater fan is removed.
#7
05-12-2015, 04:11 PM
Yeah, that's the one...
Tried to take the plate off the bottom, but one of the torx screws is stripped (maybe at the factory) turns and turns without baking out.
So, two questions... First off, speaking of a jumper, how bad of an idea would it be to try and jump power over to that fuse socket and power the system up that way?
Also, are there any better wiring (and full car) wiring diagrams available? I have seen a few over the years, but mostly stuck me as just starting and stopping... An electrical diagram rather than a wiring diagram... I would like to see how the physical wires run and from where to where rather than just power flow.
Tried to take the plate off the bottom, but one of the torx screws is stripped (maybe at the factory) turns and turns without baking out.
So, two questions... First off, speaking of a jumper, how bad of an idea would it be to try and jump power over to that fuse socket and power the system up that way?
Also, are there any better wiring (and full car) wiring diagrams available? I have seen a few over the years, but mostly stuck me as just starting and stopping... An electrical diagram rather than a wiring diagram... I would like to see how the physical wires run and from where to where rather than just power flow.
#8
05-12-2015, 04:48 PM
Pro Wrench
cam type 1/4 turn screw there
Try removing the cover on the drivers side as an experiment but I am pretty certain that the screw you refer to is one of those quarter or half turn cam type screws. I other words you are both undoing it and then doing it back up again.
Try the drivers side as it is the same so you will have a better idea of what I am referring to.
Re jumping, I would have to think about that for some time but with the infotainment system, for the most part, you need the sleep mode and the computers power control system to be operational. Turning/pushing the radio **** off does not turn the power off, just the radio head display sort of.
Parts of the system tends to be always powered except when they are not. Time outs can vary from about five minutes to twenty minutes depending upon the system. In fact how long a system stays on tends to be controlled by the opening of the drivers door, or not. The Bluetooth is a good example of this - it runs longer than one might think and tends to turn on with the door opening rather than any **** turning. The engine computer circuits and software tend to control the power to the relay solenoids.
As to a physical wiring diagram, All Data is about as close as one might get to seeing pictures of the wiring and even then, I am not certain it is what I would call complete.
Try the drivers side as it is the same so you will have a better idea of what I am referring to.
Re jumping, I would have to think about that for some time but with the infotainment system, for the most part, you need the sleep mode and the computers power control system to be operational. Turning/pushing the radio **** off does not turn the power off, just the radio head display sort of.
Parts of the system tends to be always powered except when they are not. Time outs can vary from about five minutes to twenty minutes depending upon the system. In fact how long a system stays on tends to be controlled by the opening of the drivers door, or not. The Bluetooth is a good example of this - it runs longer than one might think and tends to turn on with the door opening rather than any **** turning. The engine computer circuits and software tend to control the power to the relay solenoids.
As to a physical wiring diagram, All Data is about as close as one might get to seeing pictures of the wiring and even then, I am not certain it is what I would call complete.
#9
05-13-2015, 12:53 PM
Yeah, I have noticed the Bluetooth modules control by the door and the keyless entry... Freaks me out sometimes when I hit the button to unlock and my phone connects...
Anyway, yeah, I'm at a loss... There's power an all the related fuses accept 58P which I would have to assume is the one that actually supplies the power when it's supposed to be on.
As some others mentioned in posts I have seen on this. As you would expect the entire system is dead, the voice command, bluetooth and all...
So, let me ask this... If I am understanding correctly, on the wiring harness on the back of the radio, there should ALWAYS be a 12v feed correct? And then just a signal from the ECU or other such nonsense to tell it to kick on...
I have to check to be sure, but I am almost positive that I would find that there is no power going to the head unit at all. If that is the case, what would that imply as far as tracking the DC back up the line to see where it's not coming from?
Anyway, yeah, I'm at a loss... There's power an all the related fuses accept 58P which I would have to assume is the one that actually supplies the power when it's supposed to be on.
As some others mentioned in posts I have seen on this. As you would expect the entire system is dead, the voice command, bluetooth and all...
So, let me ask this... If I am understanding correctly, on the wiring harness on the back of the radio, there should ALWAYS be a 12v feed correct? And then just a signal from the ECU or other such nonsense to tell it to kick on...
I have to check to be sure, but I am almost positive that I would find that there is no power going to the head unit at all. If that is the case, what would that imply as far as tracking the DC back up the line to see where it's not coming from?
#10
05-13-2015, 06:59 PM
Pro Wrench
C-1354-11 should show 12VDC all the time
Pin C-1354-11 shown on page 129 of the pdf, link below, going into the rear of the Audio Head unit D282, should show battery voltage when there is power going thru F53P and that should be all the time. The same applies with X and P on sheet 3/131 having power all the time for the NAV touch screen display D326, and the Nav module, D325.
To answer your question, then YES, there should always be volts showing at the head unit on pin C-1354-11 assuming there is power going thru 15 amp F53P.
It would appear that something, (software signal from door?) makes C1354-8 go to ground and that energizes the Infotainment Relay R249, to allow power go thru the relay to feed F58P. In other words, with the relay solenoid not energized, then you are correct, they is no volts showing on either side of F58P.
That brings to mind that I think you could apply 12VDC to the downstream side of F58P and that should put life in lots of the units with no adverse effects. You would just be doing what the relay is supposed to do.
Look on page 129 of the pdf for fuse 15 amp F53P and follow it to X on sheet 3/131 and the touch screen display, C2819-1. Then look at ACC, C-2819-11 and follow it TT back to 1/129 and you will see that it gets power from F58P along with other units.
If you can figure out where connector C2919-1 is, there should also be battery voltage full time on it, the same as with the audio head.
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albu...tem_wiring.pdf
To answer your question, then YES, there should always be volts showing at the head unit on pin C-1354-11 assuming there is power going thru 15 amp F53P.
It would appear that something, (software signal from door?) makes C1354-8 go to ground and that energizes the Infotainment Relay R249, to allow power go thru the relay to feed F58P. In other words, with the relay solenoid not energized, then you are correct, they is no volts showing on either side of F58P.
That brings to mind that I think you could apply 12VDC to the downstream side of F58P and that should put life in lots of the units with no adverse effects. You would just be doing what the relay is supposed to do.
Look on page 129 of the pdf for fuse 15 amp F53P and follow it to X on sheet 3/131 and the touch screen display, C2819-1. Then look at ACC, C-2819-11 and follow it TT back to 1/129 and you will see that it gets power from F58P along with other units.
If you can figure out where connector C2919-1 is, there should also be battery voltage full time on it, the same as with the audio head.
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albu...tem_wiring.pdf