Hey Guys! I know I'm jumping in a little late, but in truth, I've been planning this for a while, but am just now getting into the project! Long story even longer, I'm doing a full rebuild on an SC engine that I'm putting into my 2010 LR4. We can get into the details of that project in another thread if you'd like. (We've been working it on a different forum site for a while now).

I do have a couple questions about the work you guys have done if that's ok?

First, I too have the M10 bolts, and in truth, they all came out with no issues. However, given the fact this is an SC engine and I'm planning a few power modifications down the road, I was thinking of purchasing the M11 kit and getting the newer style M11 bolts....or studs if I can find some that will work. (Although I have my doubts I can fit a socket into the head to torque the studs). Just curious if anyone has ever swapped for the larger bolts....in theory, "bigger is better" when it comes to head bolts?

Secondly, when you worked on your valves, as I understand it, the intake valves are automatically adjusted by the hydraulic pressure? Which leaves only the exhaust valve lash to be manually adjusted? Full disclosure, I only glanced at the shop manual about this, but it's how my 90 Acura Legend worked so it made sense....although those adjusted via a set screen and lock nut...not by utilizing different size tappets.

To wade into the tool discussion a little, I did buy the Freedom Racing head bolt tool and it fit perfectly on my bolts. You're right, pricey, but one stripped bolt and you've covered the cost! I also purchased this kit off Amazon:


The M11 fit the head bolts perfectly, and the M10 fit the exhaust header bolts perfectly. That said, while I checked for fit, I DID NOT check to make sure the M11 would fit inside the cylinder head. (I can check that later if you want). In theory it'll fit just fine, it's just not quite as long as the freedom racing tool, that's all.

Finally, and this is an odd one, have any of you ever come across a different size/style timing chain? The chain on the engine I'm rebuilding is twice as thick as the chain I ordered. Not to mention, I can't find my size/style chain anywhere? I've included a pic with the new chain on the right, old chain on the left. Any thoughts? In truth, I like the old chain better, again, bigger is better and stronger...but given the precision of this chain, it sounds quieter than the new one as well?...which I also really like.

Thanks for all the great info in the thread and I can't wait to hear what you all think!

 

So, I was able to answer my own question about the timing chains! Turns out, the larger higher quality chain....is the "old 6.35mm style." Or in reference to my picture, the chain on the left is the old style, and the chain on the right is the "new" 8mm style. The funny part about it is the fact that from what I can tell, folks who had the 6.35mm style really didn't have any chain issues. It was only when they went to the new 8mm style with the modified aluminum guid rail that they started having issues. Sadly, I can't find anyone who carries the old style stuff anymore as I want to reinstall it because it totally looks stronger and quieter!

One issue solved! Now I'm just curious what your thoughts are on the bolt kit and valve clearances!

Thanks!

 

Cyclist,

It's great to get some feedback that the time spent documenting this project provided some inspiration halfway around the world!! If this wasn't something that I enjoyed, I wouldn't do it. Way easier to just pay someone else to do the job, or give up on the vehicle entirely. I appreciated the challenge. Glad to hear your D4 is running well and good luck on that Lancia.

 

Tapps,

Great to hear from you. I was actually following your early posts on the other forum as I was going through this. I came across it when I too was searching for anyone else that might have done the supercharged in the LR4. It came to my mind to do the same thing, but ultimately common sense got the better of me because I was just fixing this one up to be my wife's daily driver. I can always use more horse power in everything I drive, lol. But we had a new baby on the way and it made more sense to get it back together quickly rather than wade through all of the complicating factors that supercharging would require. Can't wait to hear about your success!

As far as the valve clearance situation goes, you are correct. The intake side is hydraulic and doesn't really need any special attention. The exhaust side however does need to be adjusted by replacing the tappets. A dealer in Kansas was able to source me all of the specific size tappets that I needed. They're not crazy expensive, but if you need to buy 2 for each cylinder, that can get a little exorbitant. I managed this by making an excel spreadsheet of all this sizes that I had already from disassembly. I then reassembled everything, measured the clearance and then figured out where I could shift the ones I had to work best. Then I only needed to purchase a few to fill in the gaps.

The downside is is that you cannot order these ahead of time, because you have to wait for a final assembly. Then you get to wait some more for these to arrive once you purchase the correct sizes.

I can't really help you on the bolt kit, as I just stuck with the same size that came out of mine.

Good luck on the rest of the project. Feel free to ask any other questions that come up. I'll help if I can.

AGLR

 

AGLR, first, like many others, thank you for taking the time to document the job!

Quick question if you don't mind: way back at the start of this thread, you described a slow loss of coolant. Any idea how much, how fast?

I've noticed mine (2011 RR HSE, 90k) has been losing coolant slowly for a while now. Like maybe a cup or two every oil change. Recently it's more like a cup per 1000 miles, and recently we happened to be idling for a few minutes with the windows open and I got a little whiff of coolant. Haven't proven it's the head gasket but between the whiff and another time I saw a suspicious white puff come out of the driver's side tailpipe... i suspect. I don't normally see any white smoke on startup in the morning.

Haven't pulled plugs, to see if one is significantly different. No drama under the oil fill cap or around /on the expansion tank tap.

Anyone else try to gage coolant usage per 1k miles or something like that, try to figure out when the right time to do major surgery is?

If it's the head gasket, and that middle bolt is pulling loose from the head, like you and others have observed, eventually it'll either overheat (from blowing too much exhaust into the cooling system) or just start running rough/misfire on that cylinder, from lack of compression and/or coolant getting in?

AGLR, you started documenting your time. would you ballpark 40 hrs for the whole job?

 

BTW, had a nice little chat with hollandsgarage.com (not too far from me, in CT) - seem legit - more likely cause of my leak would be the annoying plastic coolant "pipe" going across the back of the engine, or the water pump or the couple hoses/pipes around the front of the motor. In which case they just leak more and more, usually don't fail catastrophically. Not like when my '07 RR heater pipe flexed into the fan blade, and *did* fail in a huge, magestic way, far from home / with the whole family, in the winter... but i digress

 

Fixalot,

I'm glad you found the posts helpful. I agree with the shop you talked to with regard to the coolant loss. That system is a web of hoses and plastic bits just looking for a chance to leak 😆. Have you replaced the plastic crossover pipes yet? They disintegrate from the inside out and if the leak was small enough, it could evaporate before dripping to the ground. And I wouldn't be too confident that they would give a ton of warning. Do some searches and you will find many examples of catastrophic failures of that part.

I didnt run it long enough at the beginning to see how fast the coolant burned with the leak. I haven't quantified normal coolant losses since rebuild, but I did see very slight drop that I attribute to evaporation, maybe a inch drop in reservoir over the last year.

My spark plugs didn't show signs that I could see. No misfires or codes either. Who knows how far she would have gone before more signs... I didn't want to roll those dice so I dug in. The conclusive evidence was the positive test for hydrocarbons in the coolant. I would highly recommend that test. It can be done at home with a kit from any auto parts store, or a shop should be able to do it for you. If that's negative, you can focus your attention elsewhere.

AGLR

 

​​​​@AGLR Thanks for the response! So sorry it's taken me a while! I don't get any notifications that something has been added to the thread. That said, congrats on the new baby! Plus, I understand the whole, "getting it back on the road right away" idea as well. FYI, this project is also for my wife's daily driver! I will let everyone know how things are going as soon as I really start making progress again. I finally got my engine back from the machinist about 2 weeks ago....that's right, it took him almost 6 months to get to it...and now I'm in the middle of a move from Maine to Tennessee, so it's gonna be a little bit. One interesting detail that really doesn't apply to LR4 folks, but I discovered during the swap is the fact that the SC engine does NOT have variable valve lift like it's NA brother. So, on the SC engine, I'm going to have to clearance match ALL the valves.

I've also been thinking, and I think I'm going to keep my 6.35mm chains as all my guides look fantastic, and I think I can use the newer style tensioners with my "old" style rails. I'll let you know how it works out in case anyone has the older style chains on their LR4/RR/RRS.

I'll be back soon!

 

@AGLR is 100% correct! I'd test your coolant for exhaust, and if that's negative, you're in the clear as far as head gaskets is concerned. FYI, I purchased my kit off Amazon:


Slow coolant loss with these engines is typically the crossover tube, which is a giant plastic piece of junk. Or the water pump, or the rear tube...or sometimes it's actually the little plastic tube coming from the oil cooler to the water pump....OR in my case BOTH the crossover tube AND the oil return tube...and even worse, I didn't have time to fix it myself and had to take it to the stealership! (We were moving from TN to ME, and I had to have the car in 48 hours....yes, we move a lot...no, we're not gypsies, just still active duty....so yeah, basically gypsies!)

I do want to point out that I have not had any coolant loss since I made the repairs. The only time I lost coolant was when there was a problem....but I could ALWAYS smell the coolant cooking off. As @AGLR said, these things, especially with the rest HVAC units are coolant air bubble nightmares! My guess is that his coolant loss wasn't actually loss, but just finally getting all the bubbles out. I have heard horror stories of folks that didn't get their systems bled properly and torched their engines on accident. Ok, maybe "torched" is bad wording, but they have definitely over temp'd their engines, and once or twice scored a cylinder.

Also, just as an FYI, I've put 2 crossover pipes in my LR4, 3 water pumps and a new coolant return pipe....and we only have 175K miles on her...granted she is a 2010, but still.

One of my "side" projects with my engine swap is to eliminate the stock water pump and thermostat and go with an external electric water pump. Granted, that won't really address the weakest links in the system, which is the crossover tube, but it might help as it'll continue to circulate coolant after the engine shuts down if things are a bit warm. I was also looking into removing the water pump altogether and eliminating the crossover tube and running the supply and return lines right out the font of the engine...where the water pump used to be. Unfortunately though, I couldn't come up with a good way to re-route/add or subtract pulleys to make it all work. Maybe I'll figure it out when putting my new engine together.

 

For starters this thread is awesome and has helped a lot. But my question is, where is everyone getting all of their torque specs from? I’ve looked online a lot to try and find a manual but cannot find a chilton/haynes and I’m seeing alot of people having issues with the “emanuals” acouple hours from pulling heads but would like to have info soon.