Autonomous braking is a not really autonomous :(
#1
04-26-2018, 12:30 AM
Autonomous braking is a not really autonomous :(
Hi everyone, I hate to put up a negative thread as my first post in this forum, however I feel compelled to share my findings with respect to the "autonomous braking system" that Land Rover offers as an option in their cars. I own a 2017 First edition Discovery basically fully loaded. The car is very capable and for us the third row seating was the most important factor in buying this car without going into the larger behemoth SUVs out there. Owning other cars which have the autonomous braking feature, I was suspicious about the lack of any intervention with close calls during normal driving in the Disco. To my shock the system is not designed to engage when the object in front is at a full stop.
So I put together a video to show that relying on the autonomous braking as a fail safe back up can be dangerous and may give drivers a false sense of security. Initially, thinking that there was a malfunction with the system, I took the car to the dealership armed with the video as evidence. The dealer confirmed that the system is only activated, when the sensors detects movement in the object ahead. As a vast majority of rear end accidents occur with the object ahead at a full stop, I consider this "safety" completely useless. I can also vouch that the system will not work correctly with cross traffic in motion, which resulted in a dangerous close call. I hope in the future Land Rover works harder at catching up with the competition and (embarrassingly) lower end vehicles costing thousands less such as a Kia, Honda, Toyota, etc, which have true autonomous braking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a5Z...ature=youtu.be
So I put together a video to show that relying on the autonomous braking as a fail safe back up can be dangerous and may give drivers a false sense of security. Initially, thinking that there was a malfunction with the system, I took the car to the dealership armed with the video as evidence. The dealer confirmed that the system is only activated, when the sensors detects movement in the object ahead. As a vast majority of rear end accidents occur with the object ahead at a full stop, I consider this "safety" completely useless. I can also vouch that the system will not work correctly with cross traffic in motion, which resulted in a dangerous close call. I hope in the future Land Rover works harder at catching up with the competition and (embarrassingly) lower end vehicles costing thousands less such as a Kia, Honda, Toyota, etc, which have true autonomous braking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a5Z...ature=youtu.be
#2
04-26-2018, 06:48 AM
#3
04-26-2018, 12:01 PM
No, it would make no difference. Apparently, the system is only programmed to intervene if it detects a "moving" object. I told the service advisor how incredibly useless this feature is as most rear end collisions are against a stationary object. That said, I can also attest to the fact that the system is not very good at picking up "moving objects" and autonomously braking.
#4
04-26-2018, 12:09 PM
Mudding
I just picked up my 2018 Discovery. It has not gone off yet but I haven't put many miles on it or been in a situation where it should go off. Will be doing more driving this weekend.
My 2012 Explorer had a very good autonomous warning and braking system. Sad that this isn't better. On the other hand my Explorer's engine hydro locked while I was caught in a flash flood. A Rover and a Jeep drove by me in the water. So that is how I ended up looking at Land Rover.
My 2012 Explorer had a very good autonomous warning and braking system. Sad that this isn't better. On the other hand my Explorer's engine hydro locked while I was caught in a flash flood. A Rover and a Jeep drove by me in the water. So that is how I ended up looking at Land Rover.
#5
04-26-2018, 01:11 PM
It's just my opinion, but I'm finding I prefer to disable these systems when possible. Having seen my wifes car "over react" and appy full brakes during a situation came close to causing a major accident. This technology is far from perfect IMO, regardless of car manufacturer. Her car decided that full brakes was required, with the system thinking she was still in the right lane, while she was shifting to the left lane. The car disagreed, applied full brakes while people behind her scrambled to avoid hitting her. She in the moment couldn't figure out how to override the system.
#7
04-26-2018, 08:13 PM
#8
04-26-2018, 08:29 PM
Hi - I don't believe this is correct. Your dealer has misled you. The system absolutely does work with stationary vehicles. Search online for AEB crash test videos - even the disco sport from 4 years ago did this well
The reason your video doesn't work is that you're crashing it into a box. That isn't a car! The LR AEB system is programmed to detect either a car or a pedestrian specifically. Not any other object. So your test unfortunately won't work
Have a look at the Euro NCAP test results. The new disco got a top 5 star rating and did very well on safety assist technology. Here is the pdf of the report
https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/38740...-datasheet.pdf
Look at p.3 chart for AEB City test where Disco performed very well. This is a test where they drive the Disco into the back of a stationary vehicle at various speeds, and both dead on and offset to the side. Read this for the specific tests
https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-...tion/aeb-city/
This is exactly the scenario you describe and the Disco performed very well.
Unfortunately you have to get very close to the vehicle and trust that the system will work so I wouldn't test it!
Also scroll down to p.10 and you'll see the AEB inter urban (higher speed driving like highways) which tests it approaching a slower moving car, and also following a car up close which brakes, and one further out which brakes. Again avoided it
Report also shows results of the pedestrian crossing in front of car - also successful
The one I'm not sure about is a car driving perpendicular across the front of you. I don't know that it can see and stop for that
The reason your video doesn't work is that you're crashing it into a box. That isn't a car! The LR AEB system is programmed to detect either a car or a pedestrian specifically. Not any other object. So your test unfortunately won't work
Have a look at the Euro NCAP test results. The new disco got a top 5 star rating and did very well on safety assist technology. Here is the pdf of the report
https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/38740...-datasheet.pdf
Look at p.3 chart for AEB City test where Disco performed very well. This is a test where they drive the Disco into the back of a stationary vehicle at various speeds, and both dead on and offset to the side. Read this for the specific tests
https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-...tion/aeb-city/
This is exactly the scenario you describe and the Disco performed very well.
Unfortunately you have to get very close to the vehicle and trust that the system will work so I wouldn't test it!
Also scroll down to p.10 and you'll see the AEB inter urban (higher speed driving like highways) which tests it approaching a slower moving car, and also following a car up close which brakes, and one further out which brakes. Again avoided it
Report also shows results of the pedestrian crossing in front of car - also successful
The one I'm not sure about is a car driving perpendicular across the front of you. I don't know that it can see and stop for that
#9
04-26-2018, 11:09 PM
Hi - I don't believe this is correct. Your dealer has misled you. The system absolutely does work with stationary vehicles. Search online for AEB crash test videos - even the disco sport from 4 years ago did this well
The reason your video doesn't work is that you're crashing it into a box. That isn't a car! The LR AEB system is programmed to detect either a car or a pedestrian specifically. Not any other object. So your test unfortunately won't work
Have a look at the Euro NCAP test results. The new disco got a top 5 star rating and did very well on safety assist technology. Here is the pdf of the report
https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/38740...-datasheet.pdf
Look at p.3 chart for AEB City test where Disco performed very well. This is a test where they drive the Disco into the back of a stationary vehicle at various speeds, and both dead on and offset to the side. Read this for the specific tests
https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-...tion/aeb-city/
This is exactly the scenario you describe and the Disco performed very well.
Unfortunately you have to get very close to the vehicle and trust that the system will work so I wouldn't test it!
Also scroll down to p.10 and you'll see the AEB inter urban (higher speed driving like highways) which tests it approaching a slower moving car, and also following a car up close which brakes, and one further out which brakes. Again avoided it
Report also shows results of the pedestrian crossing in front of car - also successful
The one I'm not sure about is a car driving perpendicular across the front of you. I don't know that it can see and stop for that
The reason your video doesn't work is that you're crashing it into a box. That isn't a car! The LR AEB system is programmed to detect either a car or a pedestrian specifically. Not any other object. So your test unfortunately won't work
Have a look at the Euro NCAP test results. The new disco got a top 5 star rating and did very well on safety assist technology. Here is the pdf of the report
https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/38740...-datasheet.pdf
Look at p.3 chart for AEB City test where Disco performed very well. This is a test where they drive the Disco into the back of a stationary vehicle at various speeds, and both dead on and offset to the side. Read this for the specific tests
https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-...tion/aeb-city/
This is exactly the scenario you describe and the Disco performed very well.
Unfortunately you have to get very close to the vehicle and trust that the system will work so I wouldn't test it!
Also scroll down to p.10 and you'll see the AEB inter urban (higher speed driving like highways) which tests it approaching a slower moving car, and also following a car up close which brakes, and one further out which brakes. Again avoided it
Report also shows results of the pedestrian crossing in front of car - also successful
The one I'm not sure about is a car driving perpendicular across the front of you. I don't know that it can see and stop for that
Last edited by stardoc; 04-26-2018 at 11:28 PM.
#10
04-27-2018, 12:04 PM
Mudding
I am not sure about the behind the scenes stuff but the dash is completely different. I test drove 2017's and 2018's back in January before ordering my 2018.
2018 is totally electronic including the speedometer etc.
https://www.landroverusa.com/our-sto...discovery.html
2018 MODEL YEAR ENHANCEMENTS
All derivatives of the 2018 Land Rover Discovery now feature the Land Rover InControl®Touch Pro™ infotainment system with a 10-inch touchscreen interface on the center console as standard.3 Digital connectivity is also enhanced with the introduction of 4G Wi-Fi, providing superior connection speeds for up to eight mobile devices on the move.2
For the 2018 model year, the Land Rover Discovery also benefits from the addition of a 12.3-inch Interactive Driver Display TFT instrument cluster as standard fitment on HSE and HSE Luxury models. The high-resolution panel provides contemporary graphics that create the impression of 3D surfaces with exceptional clarity and allow the driver to personalize the visual display around the two main dials working in conjunction with the now standard 10-inch Touch Pro infotainment system.3
The 2018 Discovery adds a second-generation Head-Up Display (HUD) as an option on HSE and HSE Luxury models, featuring a wider level of functionality and new full-color display. Now with approximately 2.5 times more display space than its predecessor, the second-gen HUD allows for information such as speed, traffic sign recognition, Adaptive Cruise Control, gear selection and advanced driver assistance system warnings to be projected more clearly onto the windshield ahead of the driver. System functionality has also been expanded to show real time graphics, text, 4x4i and enhanced navigation cues.5
On the exterior, a new Bryon Blue colorway is added to the paint palette. Additionally, while vehicles with Dynamic and Black Packages were previously limited to feature Corris Grey or Narvik Black contrast roofs, 2018 owners can now spec a body-colored roof for either of these packages as a no cost option.
Previously exclusive to HSE and HSE Luxury models, the powerful and efficient Td6 diesel engine will now be offered on SE derivatives as well. Delivering 254 hp and 443 lb.-ft. of torque from its 3.0L turbocharged V6 engine and paired to a ZF® 8-speed automatic transmission, the Td6 offers strong performance and increased efficiency over gas models both during normal driving and while towing.
All derivatives of the 2018 Land Rover Discovery now feature the Land Rover InControl®Touch Pro™ infotainment system with a 10-inch touchscreen interface on the center console as standard.3 Digital connectivity is also enhanced with the introduction of 4G Wi-Fi, providing superior connection speeds for up to eight mobile devices on the move.2
For the 2018 model year, the Land Rover Discovery also benefits from the addition of a 12.3-inch Interactive Driver Display TFT instrument cluster as standard fitment on HSE and HSE Luxury models. The high-resolution panel provides contemporary graphics that create the impression of 3D surfaces with exceptional clarity and allow the driver to personalize the visual display around the two main dials working in conjunction with the now standard 10-inch Touch Pro infotainment system.3
The 2018 Discovery adds a second-generation Head-Up Display (HUD) as an option on HSE and HSE Luxury models, featuring a wider level of functionality and new full-color display. Now with approximately 2.5 times more display space than its predecessor, the second-gen HUD allows for information such as speed, traffic sign recognition, Adaptive Cruise Control, gear selection and advanced driver assistance system warnings to be projected more clearly onto the windshield ahead of the driver. System functionality has also been expanded to show real time graphics, text, 4x4i and enhanced navigation cues.5
On the exterior, a new Bryon Blue colorway is added to the paint palette. Additionally, while vehicles with Dynamic and Black Packages were previously limited to feature Corris Grey or Narvik Black contrast roofs, 2018 owners can now spec a body-colored roof for either of these packages as a no cost option.
Previously exclusive to HSE and HSE Luxury models, the powerful and efficient Td6 diesel engine will now be offered on SE derivatives as well. Delivering 254 hp and 443 lb.-ft. of torque from its 3.0L turbocharged V6 engine and paired to a ZF® 8-speed automatic transmission, the Td6 offers strong performance and increased efficiency over gas models both during normal driving and while towing.