Help with buying a lemon car
#1
10-09-2020, 12:10 PM
Help with buying a lemon car
Hi, I'm looking for some help with buying a California Lemon-Buy Back 2019 Disco SE with 1,300 miles and 10K in options installed. Spoke to the dealer and he provided me with all the records of repair and said that the customer complaint was that the car lost acceleration - after the buyback the car went through a 165 point inspection and LR NA could not replicate the problem. Now they are selling that car at 40K - original sticker was 62k. It also includes the original 4 year 50K warranty. Would appreciate any input and experiences?
#3
10-09-2020, 12:58 PM
Rock Crawling
Hi, I'm looking for some help with buying a California Lemon-Buy Back 2019 Disco SE with 1,300 miles and 10K in options installed. Spoke to the dealer and he provided me with all the records of repair and said that the customer complaint was that the car lost acceleration - after the buyback the car went through a 165 point inspection and LR NA could not replicate the problem. Now they are selling that car at 40K - original sticker was 62k. It also includes the original 4 year 50K warranty. Would appreciate any input and experiences?
I'd want more story... or I'm not hearing this right. Nothing gets bought back under lemon laws that I've ever heard about because a customer complains about something and the dealer can't replicate it (then again, cali being cali... who knows). But if they can show with previous paperwork that the issue has been fixed, then I'd be ok buying it.
But if it was an easy solution, a dealer tech should have fixed it long before it'd be eligible to even lemon'd... which is usually like 3 or four fruitless attempts at a fix and a big fight.
So i guess I'm missing information or just confused on this.
What is financing like on it? we just did a new 2020 65k landmark for 59k and 0% in July. I was about to look at lemon 4 hours north of me before I bit on this one.
#4
10-09-2020, 01:02 PM
I have the paperwork from the complaint and it shows that customer came to dealer ship and complained about loss of power and acceleration for 3 times - dealership could not replicate issue at any of the visits and after 3rd attempt he returned it under the lemon law. Financing is probably 3% - I think I'm ok with buying it considering the warranty - I guess the only thing that I have to deal with is the hassle of going to dealer if something goes wrong.
#5
10-09-2020, 01:16 PM
Rock Crawling
I have the paperwork from the complaint and it shows that customer came to dealer ship and complained about loss of power and acceleration for 3 times - dealership could not replicate issue at any of the visits and after 3rd attempt he returned it under the lemon law. Financing is probably 3% - I think I'm ok with buying it considering the warranty - I guess the only thing that I have to deal with is the hassle of going to dealer if something goes wrong.
#6
10-09-2020, 01:28 PM
haha, yes that wouldn't be a fun issue to deal with given the fact that I live up in the mountains at 6,000 ft and have to drive a fun mountain pass weekly ;-) - I will do more investigation and maybe give the dealer a call who took it back - which is funny enough the dealer which is closest to me...
#8
10-10-2020, 05:04 AM
I would do three things. Ask them for an extended test drive, I would say for at least 3 days. They can have your credit card and charge it as a rental if they want (and the credit it back to you if you buy the car). Try and drive the car for at least 300 miles and see if you can induce the problem. The second thing I would is take the car to one of those non-LR specialists and see if they can find a code or maybe something related to the PCM (someone mentioned something about this earlier win the thread). The last thing I would is have them extend the warranty to 5 years/100k like a CPO car. I just did this (the warranty) and on a dealer demo. I purchased.
Good luck!
Good luck!
#9
10-10-2020, 09:36 AM
Signed up just to provide some info (new Discovery 5 owner). The fact that the dealership is stating they could not reproduce the issue has me concerned.
I've unfortunately been through the Lemon Law process twice (in Florida). The first time was for a bad intermittent vibration that literally felt like a wheel was coming loose. That issue was documented and identified by multiple of the manufacturer's dealerships, several engineers, and many third party automotive technicians. If I recall correctly, I was north of 15 repair attempts, and the vehicle would spend weeks at the dealerships for different attempted fixes. I ultimately ended up winning in court, but the process took over 1.5 years and consumed hundreds of hours of my life. The manufacturer's view was that the vibration was acceptable, however every third party expert felt otherwise. I was notified a few months after the repurchase that the vehicle was for sale by an out of state dealership, and do wonder if they manufacturer made any attempt to fix the issue.
The second Lemon Law case was for a modern diesel vehicle that would at random display an emissions-related "engine will not start in X miles" error. In the matter of several months, the vehicle was at the dealership for 7 repair attempts and over 40 days - all while the case was being processed. While it should have been a walk-through-the-park case, given the vehicle was literally telling you it would not perform it's most basic function, the case dragged on for nearly a year and the manufacturer fought it every bit of the way.
I'm simply sharing this information because, based on my experience (and reading the accounts of many), the lemon law process hasn't been "3 tries and you get a new car/your money back". In Florida, half the battle is proving that the issue substantially impairs the use, value or safety of the vehicle (which is what made the first case so challenging).
It appears that Land Rover uses the BBB Autoline program for arbitrating Lemon Law claims (prior to state courts), that said the previous owner would have had to have concrete proof (either being able to reproduce the issue to the arbitrators or court board, or having extension documentation of the dealership technicians reproducing the issue).
Here's what I would do and take into consideration:
- As others have said - take the car home for an extended test drive
- Request detailed service records of the vehicle, and look at the how many repairs were attempted
- Search state lemon law cases to see if you find a Land Rover case that matches the description of this one. The court notes are sometimes very detailed
- In Florida, I believe the manufacturer has to provide a year of warranty regarding the specific issue after selling a previously lemon lawed vehicle
- If possible, I would do a title search and reach out to the previous owner. It might be going overboard, but it might also help you test for the issue prior to purchase
- I would also take into account that the title is branded, and while you are saving today, you will also be taking a hit when you do resell it down the road
- Compare the price of the vehicle to 2019 low-mile used examples with clean titles, and try to determine how much you are really saving. CarMax down here had a 2019 SE with 7k miles for $46k ($60k msrp) last month. If you love the vehicle and aren't able to reproduce the issue, maybe you can save a bit more by using clean-title used vehicles as comps.
Hope this helps
I've unfortunately been through the Lemon Law process twice (in Florida). The first time was for a bad intermittent vibration that literally felt like a wheel was coming loose. That issue was documented and identified by multiple of the manufacturer's dealerships, several engineers, and many third party automotive technicians. If I recall correctly, I was north of 15 repair attempts, and the vehicle would spend weeks at the dealerships for different attempted fixes. I ultimately ended up winning in court, but the process took over 1.5 years and consumed hundreds of hours of my life. The manufacturer's view was that the vibration was acceptable, however every third party expert felt otherwise. I was notified a few months after the repurchase that the vehicle was for sale by an out of state dealership, and do wonder if they manufacturer made any attempt to fix the issue.
The second Lemon Law case was for a modern diesel vehicle that would at random display an emissions-related "engine will not start in X miles" error. In the matter of several months, the vehicle was at the dealership for 7 repair attempts and over 40 days - all while the case was being processed. While it should have been a walk-through-the-park case, given the vehicle was literally telling you it would not perform it's most basic function, the case dragged on for nearly a year and the manufacturer fought it every bit of the way.
I'm simply sharing this information because, based on my experience (and reading the accounts of many), the lemon law process hasn't been "3 tries and you get a new car/your money back". In Florida, half the battle is proving that the issue substantially impairs the use, value or safety of the vehicle (which is what made the first case so challenging).
It appears that Land Rover uses the BBB Autoline program for arbitrating Lemon Law claims (prior to state courts), that said the previous owner would have had to have concrete proof (either being able to reproduce the issue to the arbitrators or court board, or having extension documentation of the dealership technicians reproducing the issue).
Here's what I would do and take into consideration:
- As others have said - take the car home for an extended test drive
- Request detailed service records of the vehicle, and look at the how many repairs were attempted
- Search state lemon law cases to see if you find a Land Rover case that matches the description of this one. The court notes are sometimes very detailed
- In Florida, I believe the manufacturer has to provide a year of warranty regarding the specific issue after selling a previously lemon lawed vehicle
- If possible, I would do a title search and reach out to the previous owner. It might be going overboard, but it might also help you test for the issue prior to purchase
- I would also take into account that the title is branded, and while you are saving today, you will also be taking a hit when you do resell it down the road
- Compare the price of the vehicle to 2019 low-mile used examples with clean titles, and try to determine how much you are really saving. CarMax down here had a 2019 SE with 7k miles for $46k ($60k msrp) last month. If you love the vehicle and aren't able to reproduce the issue, maybe you can save a bit more by using clean-title used vehicles as comps.
Hope this helps
Last edited by null1; 10-10-2020 at 10:14 AM.