Rock hit Radiator and Motor is Blown
#21
I agree it seems strange to have no warning for overheat when such a warning does exist according to the manual as others have said.
Now, we don't know when the radiator got damaged, the more minor the leak the farther back on the drive it could have been hit.
That said, if it was a relatively minor leak and then that means it would have taken a while to drop the fluid level below the sensor (anyone know where the sensor is located, how much fluid would you have left after passing it?) and that suggests to me the thing shouldn't have let go in the sort distance the OP mentioned. If it was a big leak that happened just a few seconds prior and it was emptying fast I'm still skeptical it could cause an overheat problem that fast, again on the distance the OP had to drive, some 30-45 seconds at neighbourhood speeds. I know engines overheat pretty quick but I'm not convinced it would have gone critical that fast. I'm also wondering what the tow truck guy saw if he said there was enough coolant in it for him to drive it, it couldn't have been nearly empty right?
The thing that does bother me though is the knocking noise the OP heard...
That's highly concerning and again seems to suggest the issue was real at that time, not after the dealership changed the radiator.
If the cause of low coolant was a damaged radiator then it can't be co-incidental that the low coolant message appeared at the near the same time as the subsequent knocking sound.
The OP says he saw the coolant gushing form the front drivers side so it must be significant enough.
If the engine really let go (cracked a piston, or ring, or whatever) I find it hard to believe it was due to that overheat which happened so fast.
Equally, while stuff contracts when it cools down surely on that test drive by the dealership they would have heard it knocking as the engine warmed up, after all, if when the OP got to the dealership the thing wouldn't start and the valet said there it was making a noise at that time (when it would have been cold) they must have heard it during the test drive no? Was it heard when the tow truck driver moved the car?
Despite reservations about the dealership (whose behaviour seems strangely cagey) I do think something went catastrophically wrong when the OP was driving home due to the knocking noise heard.
If there was no knocking noise I'd be far more comfortable pointing the finger at the dealership. But given it was knocking then it may need a new engine or at the least a serious tear down and a big bill regardless.
I'm back to being concerned about hearing the knocking noise 30 seconds after a low coolant warning and no high temp warning.
I know new car engines do run at high temp, right on the edge of safety and have heard that such warning (over temp) essentially come to late anyway, at least for a head gasket.
But again, I'd expect a head gasket problem from overheating, not the oil breakdown issue, which I would have thought would take longer to show, not 30 seconds.
But now I'm rambling again as I keep turning this over in my head...
Now, we don't know when the radiator got damaged, the more minor the leak the farther back on the drive it could have been hit.
That said, if it was a relatively minor leak and then that means it would have taken a while to drop the fluid level below the sensor (anyone know where the sensor is located, how much fluid would you have left after passing it?) and that suggests to me the thing shouldn't have let go in the sort distance the OP mentioned. If it was a big leak that happened just a few seconds prior and it was emptying fast I'm still skeptical it could cause an overheat problem that fast, again on the distance the OP had to drive, some 30-45 seconds at neighbourhood speeds. I know engines overheat pretty quick but I'm not convinced it would have gone critical that fast. I'm also wondering what the tow truck guy saw if he said there was enough coolant in it for him to drive it, it couldn't have been nearly empty right?
The thing that does bother me though is the knocking noise the OP heard...
That's highly concerning and again seems to suggest the issue was real at that time, not after the dealership changed the radiator.
If the cause of low coolant was a damaged radiator then it can't be co-incidental that the low coolant message appeared at the near the same time as the subsequent knocking sound.
The OP says he saw the coolant gushing form the front drivers side so it must be significant enough.
If the engine really let go (cracked a piston, or ring, or whatever) I find it hard to believe it was due to that overheat which happened so fast.
Equally, while stuff contracts when it cools down surely on that test drive by the dealership they would have heard it knocking as the engine warmed up, after all, if when the OP got to the dealership the thing wouldn't start and the valet said there it was making a noise at that time (when it would have been cold) they must have heard it during the test drive no? Was it heard when the tow truck driver moved the car?
Despite reservations about the dealership (whose behaviour seems strangely cagey) I do think something went catastrophically wrong when the OP was driving home due to the knocking noise heard.
If there was no knocking noise I'd be far more comfortable pointing the finger at the dealership. But given it was knocking then it may need a new engine or at the least a serious tear down and a big bill regardless.
I'm back to being concerned about hearing the knocking noise 30 seconds after a low coolant warning and no high temp warning.
I know new car engines do run at high temp, right on the edge of safety and have heard that such warning (over temp) essentially come to late anyway, at least for a head gasket.
But again, I'd expect a head gasket problem from overheating, not the oil breakdown issue, which I would have thought would take longer to show, not 30 seconds.
But now I'm rambling again as I keep turning this over in my head...
#22
Andries - funny you mention that. As i sat in my driveway waiting for the tow truck to show up ALL 7 items on the "Vehicle Health Report" (LR App) were green. I didn't think to take a screen shot because i just assumed this wouldn't be a big deal. It's a brand new car, after all.
Also - the SERVICE MANAGER at JLR showed us exactly where the rock went through - the DRIVERS SIDE VENT. A week later, when i was talking to the GM over the phone, he said, no, the rock went straight through the center of the grill. Someone is mistaken but I am not sure who.
Also - the SERVICE MANAGER at JLR showed us exactly where the rock went through - the DRIVERS SIDE VENT. A week later, when i was talking to the GM over the phone, he said, no, the rock went straight through the center of the grill. Someone is mistaken but I am not sure who.
#23
LoneStarLR - I was wondering what the JLR dealer EXPECTED would have happened to give me warning that there was a fatal issue about to occur. He again, said it didn't matter cause the rock hit the radiator but, i still would like to know. So, hearing from you that the manual says there is an overheat warning makes me feel better. Just can't figure out why nothing went off. That's the part that makes me feel like it is a LR issue and not insurance issue. Something ABSOLUTELY went wrong in the computer system because if that engine was hot/dying/etc. SOMETHING should have shown on the display. It simply didn't. Also - i replied to another member response - but, we paid to have the codes from the ECU checked and the pistons scoped but they wouldn't give the code information to the insurance because it is "proprietary" information. So that leaves me with no recourse. I gave them full permission and payment to do the test and it didn't do a thing to help me out. Only they know what codes went off. Actually, that's not true - I know as well - NO CODES went off. Simply a "coolant low" (in white, NOT amber). Just so darn frustrating.
#25
I wonder if the app has any warning on it, perhaps check and see what it shows under Assistance>Vehicle Heath Report.
I would definitely push back hard on the dealership given that they drove 4.3 miles before you came to pick up the D5 without noticing the engine is shot. The sequence of events doesn't add up. You can also pull all the error codes and typically some timestamp from the ECU, to see what happened where. That may be the most telling. It may be that the engine got damaged before, but I'm very skeptical given that you never got an alert of overheating. The Owner's manual clearly states a red engine temperature warning lamp will illuminate if the temperature gets to high.
My gut feel is that the engine was fine when it went to the dealer, and they either didn't fill the coolant properly or bleed it properly to get air out of the system and damaged it during the test drive. But that will be hard to prove, unless you can clearly get the codes from the ECU that shows something along those lines. I can obviously be wrong, but you mentioned getting a low coolant only 1 minute or so before shutting down, and it wasn't like you were using the engine high load, I find it hard to believe damage would occur that fast.
FYI, the side vents are the supercharger coolers, though I believe they are tied to the engine cooling system. Loosing coolant there will ultimately impact the engine cooling. If you have a TD6 is is an air to air intercooler on the left and aux radiator on the right, so depends on the side of impact.
I would definitely push back hard on the dealership given that they drove 4.3 miles before you came to pick up the D5 without noticing the engine is shot. The sequence of events doesn't add up. You can also pull all the error codes and typically some timestamp from the ECU, to see what happened where. That may be the most telling. It may be that the engine got damaged before, but I'm very skeptical given that you never got an alert of overheating. The Owner's manual clearly states a red engine temperature warning lamp will illuminate if the temperature gets to high.
My gut feel is that the engine was fine when it went to the dealer, and they either didn't fill the coolant properly or bleed it properly to get air out of the system and damaged it during the test drive. But that will be hard to prove, unless you can clearly get the codes from the ECU that shows something along those lines. I can obviously be wrong, but you mentioned getting a low coolant only 1 minute or so before shutting down, and it wasn't like you were using the engine high load, I find it hard to believe damage would occur that fast.
FYI, the side vents are the supercharger coolers, though I believe they are tied to the engine cooling system. Loosing coolant there will ultimately impact the engine cooling. If you have a TD6 is is an air to air intercooler on the left and aux radiator on the right, so depends on the side of impact.
I have a td6 and my right side is completely closed with a plastic insert in place of where the radiator would be.
The left side is totally open to a radiator.
#26
The SC Si6 has little radiators on both sides. The TD6 is a typical turbo air to air intercooler.
Anyway, I’m veru suspect of the dealer and would demand the full diag log of the ECU. The moe I hear the more I suspect the dealer screwed up and covering their ***. The knocking sound doesn’t sound right from just a coolant leak without overheating, dunno.
Either way it seems it is up the insurance to fix the D5. Best to insist on a new engine after this fiasco. Is the insurance stepping up?
#27
I think one important aspect that people are missing here is that:
THE DEALER REPLACED THE RADIATOR UNDER WARRANTY.
You can't very well say this part is covered but the part that it protects (engine) isn't if said covered part fails.
Also, if the engine died in the customer's possession as they claim, how did it suddenly work after replacing the radiator to be able to drive flawlessly for 4.3 miles?
Something isn't right with this story.
THE DEALER REPLACED THE RADIATOR UNDER WARRANTY.
You can't very well say this part is covered but the part that it protects (engine) isn't if said covered part fails.
Also, if the engine died in the customer's possession as they claim, how did it suddenly work after replacing the radiator to be able to drive flawlessly for 4.3 miles?
Something isn't right with this story.
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AirRyan (07-06-2020)
#28
1979rover - YEESSSSS!!! That is DEFINITELY the question that not only i, but also my insurance company has. This whole thing makes no sense. I have the "receipt" from the day i went to pick up the car after the radiator was replaced that says, No Charge,Warranty. When i question the JLR dealers GM about this he says, "Well, that never should have happened". But it did. My insurance company who i spoke with again this morning said, they have a mechanical engineer looking into this but, that they don't like what they see. They say sure, we will cover a rock hitting the radiator, no problem. But, how did a rock hitting the radiator kill an engine with no warning? And how did they drive it for 4.3 miles and tell me everything was great once they replaced the radiator only to come back 24 hours later and say the engine is blown. My head is spinning.
#29
THE DEALER REPLACED THE RADIATOR UNDER WARRANTY.
You can't very well say this part is covered but the part that it protects (engine) isn't if said covered part fails.
Also, if the engine died in the customer's possession as they claim, how did it suddenly work after replacing the radiator to be able to drive flawlessly for 4.3 miles?
Something isn't right with this story.
You can't very well say this part is covered but the part that it protects (engine) isn't if said covered part fails.
Also, if the engine died in the customer's possession as they claim, how did it suddenly work after replacing the radiator to be able to drive flawlessly for 4.3 miles?
Something isn't right with this story.
#30
Does the D5 not have an engine temp guage in the steering wheel cluster? Is there no menu that can pull it up?
it is absolutely vital for someone to know the temp of the engine at all times, even more so on an off-road vehicle.
Everyone absolutely needs to get a Bluetooth obd2 plug that wireless sends all real time data to your phone...engine temp being one of them.
Can also have an aftermarket shop install a temp guage into the engine as well as oil temp guage to always have accurate readings inside the cab.
it is absolutely vital for someone to know the temp of the engine at all times, even more so on an off-road vehicle.
Everyone absolutely needs to get a Bluetooth obd2 plug that wireless sends all real time data to your phone...engine temp being one of them.
Can also have an aftermarket shop install a temp guage into the engine as well as oil temp guage to always have accurate readings inside the cab.