Originally Posted by umbertob

That's news to me. On my 2020, you could either order the off-road pack (was $1,345.00 on my 2020 ordered about a year ago) which included rear lockers, off-road tires and 120v plug socket in the trunk, OR the off-road tires alone, $350.00. If you tried ordering both, the $350.00 charge for the tires would be automatically removed. I went to look at the window sticker of my 2020 110 HSE, there is no extra charge for the off-road tires I received with the off-road pack, it's all included in the $1345 off-road pack. $1900 would represent a 40% price hike from the 2020s - if that's really what they charge you in 2021 for those options. Either that, or your dealer owes you $350.00...

Originally Posted by TrioLRowner

I believe you are referring to the safety system which JLR calls Directional Stability Control (DSC). It is standard on all the Defenders (and probably on all JLR products, I suppose). It appears by experience to be a safety only system, and features rapid reduction of throttle and the application of braking when vehicle yaw, spin and acceleration sensors believe the vehicle is in an unsafe skidding situation. It certainly will bring to a halt progress quickly in some on and off-road conditions !

DSC is always active in the terrain response 2 AUTO mode (the driver cannot turn it off), is auto-turned off by the system in some other off-road modes, and can (and should) be manually turned off in off-road modes where the need to maintain momentum (like sand and deep snow and deep mud ruts) outweighs the safety risk from turning off DSC.

My understanding is the torque-vector-braking, as you note, is to enhance handling on-road and while off-road is focused on putting power through each wheel in a manner which maintains a suitable amount of traction for the condition in which the vehicle is operating and in a manner which minimizes trail damage.

As a comment, off-road with TR2, the vehicle will request in an insistent manner that it be put into AUTO mode if its sensors find that the driver is mis-appreciating what mode should be best used for the actual conditions at the current moment. Driving off-road in the wet, creek filled, rocky, muddy, up and down mountains, the conditions at the wheels can change across the modes so rapidly that letting the TR2 work in Auto works best. This is why (I think) that AUTO is the only mode (on or off - road) where there is not an ICON which is lit on the dashboard.

So, the preferred desire of JLR it seems is to leave all systems active and allow the vehicle to use all the logic available. This certainly can make sense off road, too, where in hill descent or ascent one is trying not to get sideways to the route of travel and thereby roll the vehicle over.

Originally Posted by clubguy

This seems to be counter productive when driving through deep snow and mud. Do you think this can be "fixed" through a software update from Land Rover?

Originally Posted by TrioLRowner

I think the root of any confusion may be a philosophical difference between Land Rover and maybe some other manufacturers (Jeep?) .

"As slow as possible, as fast as necessary" places the safety of the occupants and the vehicle as paramount. Adhering to this foundation demands DSC is on as often as possible, and demands the driver's contribution to actively decide to go faster / take more risk to conserve momentum, and to do so by decisively turning off DSC (or exiting AUTO mode and then turning off DSC).

When about to enter deep snow, deep sand, water crossings or deep mud I always make certain DSC is off. It is a standard practice -- it becomes a habit very quickly.

Similarly, when navigating a steep hill climb or descent, I am reassured to have the DSC on as a default (and I manually confirm its state, as a point of discipline).

As a going forward learning, I am now becoming more comfortable in JLRs extension of this philosophy into the HOLD and auto Parking Brake logic. I actually found the HOLD feature shockingly useful the first time I drove it off-road -- I guess I did not appreciate how often I was performing that task in my off-road driving.

I am still in the human mode of trying to accept the HOLD feature as something I really value. Logically, I cannot disagree. But, I am still getting used to letting the vehicle help protect itself and its occupants in this area, as I have with DSC.

Originally Posted by clubguy

Since I don't have mine yet...it arrives in August 2021....are you saying it is working as designed? How do I exit auto mode and turn off DSC? This reminds of traction control on cars where if you're climbing a slippery driveway and the wheels slip, the power goes down considerably. To make it up the driveway, you need to turn off traction control.

Originally Posted by TrioLRowner

yes, it is working as designed.

To exit Auto mode, push the button just right of the Left thermostat control. This will pull up the off-road mode selector screen on the center console. Then either use your finger or the thermo. twist control to select another mode other than AUTO. The symbol above the tach will change to the mode you selected (except for AUTO, where there is no symbol there).

You will then be able to push the button with the car and slippery lines at the bottom left to OFF -- next to the LO/HI transfer case selector. When you press it to OFF you will receive a note between the speedo and tach that DSC has been turned OFF.

It is interesting to note that the ONLY way to place the vehicle in AUTO mode is to push the button on the screen with your finger. The thermo control **** does NOT enable it.

I expect this is because AUTO is not available in Terrain Response 1?

It takes much longer to write the steps than to do them .......