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Best Defender model for overlanding Thinking of trading in my 2023 110X (lemon?)
Hey all, I have a 2023 Defender 110 X and it has been to the shop multiple times. This last time it had charging system failure and needs a DC DC Convertor that is back ordered because I suppose so many of them have gone bad. They will have mine for 2 months since it is not drivable. Supposedly the 2025 models are more reliable??? Who knows. My dealer is 100 miles away so they always send someone up to get my vehicle but I am getting sick of it. First was just rubbing on the mud flaps but second was the rear door would not unlock and there is no way to open it if the electrics are not working, Than it was an EGR valve or something like that. Now it is this DCDC converter which apparently goes between the hybrid batter and my battery and charges my 12V.
I asked for them to lend me a Defender 130 so I can check out the size difference to my 110. It is pretty nice .. that extra 13.5” seems like a lot more when you open the back. I have always felt that the trunk was a little small compared to my 2006 LR3. They send me the Outbound, which I suppose I will have for several months now.
My question is … the models are a little confusing. I got the 110 X because at the time it had everything. Now I have decided that I would want everything that it would need for off road but things like the snorkel and the rack are not that important. Aftermarket racks are better and underbody protection is better from aftermarket as well.
Which model has all the options for off road without the fluff? I will buy a rack from Frontrunner and probably a bull bar and underbody stuff from Newdefendermods. Snorkel I can just add on myself. My 110X is missing the winter package but otherwise it has everything.
The 130 loses some departure angle but I have never even come close to rock crawling with my 110 or my LR3. Just overlanding.
Is the Outbound the model that has everything? Cameras, Locking Diffs …
I am not excited about losing the folding flat second row. The 130 seems to almost fold flat but not completely like the 110 or my LR3 which is one of the things I really like about the Landrovers.
You are going to get a whole lot of opinions here. We specialize in this believe we have the best formula for an overland/off road build Defender spec. Lets focus on an overland build. We know when you are out in the middle of nowhere camping and exploring, the goal is to minimize the potential for failure and still offer cargo space and performance. Generally, when you build an overland setup, the goal is to keep it more long term than just trade it after a couple years.
1. The D130 would be great for overlanding because of the extra space, however it has some hurdles to conquer. You already mentioned the load space and fold flat. The 130 has thrid rows unless you go outbound, which is a very high spec and limited options. It also only has mild hybrid options. Otherwise, you can spec a V8 (im not the biggest fan of that engine) and tear out the seats which is not a bad option. However, your starting point for an build out is getting up there in price. I do like the 2nd row Captain's option. This would maybe work out well for a pop up camping style build.
2. I would spec a p300 4-cylinder D110. It is much less complex than other specs, weighs less and costs much less than a p400 mild hybrid. You have already experienced one major failure point of the hybrid system. The 110 also had a nice flat cargo floor. Plus the cargo space under the floor especially if you have the p300 without those 48 volt batteries in the back. With a proper maintenance interval, the p300 has plenty of power, and will likely be very problem free with a good maintenance schedule. My p300 has 120k miles and i couldn't be happier.
3. I would choose coil suspension vs air. This has been debated a lot. I have 1st hand experience with this and will say that yes there is the many benefits to air including load leveling and access mode to mention a few. In addition, having air also forces electronic dampening shocks to the build. There are many failures on these also. I just go back to less complex is less likely to fail. Coils with standard dampers are much more durable and simple. Adding some 2 inch lift springs with some small helper bags in the coils is a very simple and reliable setup that you never have to worry about.
3. I suggest to avoid the factory rear locking differential. I will tell you that the benefits are marginal. The drawbacks are right back into the complexity and reliability. This is not a typical electronic on/off locking differential like in other brands. It is a variable torque on demand ecu controlled differential. It has clutches in it. It requires special fluid. It also has a common faiure rate. There are service bulletins. On this unit. Many need to be replaced. I ran mine without any rear locker assistance for 2 years and never once did my vehicle make me feel like i needed it. It is so capable without one. It also adds more room in the under floor cargo area without it. It also has a much shorter left rear axle if it has a locker. This limits the down travel potential for the rear suspension if you want to add longer travel shocks which is much easier on a coil truck as mentioned above.
4. We spec our trucks with the 18 inch factory steel wheels. These are an easy fit and used to come stock on the p300 (another advantage to the 4 cylinder). No mods or shaving needed to fit them. The lug nuts are very simple acorn nuts, not the shoulder style aluminim covered lugs. This makes them easy to bolt on and off. No fuss. Also, if you bend or damage one, it can be hammered back out and easily fixed in the field. 18s also offer the best tire choices and the most sidewall for off road comfort and durability.
5. Get the trailer hitch, not the tow package. It is a nominal add on for a build but doesn't force air suspension like the tow package does. Remember the tow capacity and tongue weight rating for air and coils is the same. Also the tongue weight for a p300 and p400 is the same. 770lbs. The p300 is just a little less overall trailer weight capacity. But technically, you can run a weight distribution hitch on a coil truck safely to help with sway and sag. This in my opinion is a better heavy towing setup than air suspension. Either way, if you have to add the hitch after the fact, it is much more money.
6. Get the interior options that you want. Some want less, some want more. These options are hard to add later. Cooled seats, leather. Premium sound and so on. Just remember that a lot of the software features like terrain response 2 can be added easily after the fact.
7. We spec all of our Defenders in fuji white. This is because it does not show the scraches and dirt nearly as badly as any of the colors (especially black). It also stays a lot cooler in the summertime in the very hot climates. I do love the other colors available and would not kick them out of bed, but the white overland setup is much more purpose built.
8. As you mentioned, i would let the aftermarket handle your mods and accessories. The factory ones are ok, but this is where companies like us, LK8, Saltek and many others shine. In addition, we can offer you advise and even come out on the trails with you. It tends to be more of a relationship than just a transaction. Also we are just a phone call away. We can help with small questions all the way up to finding a truck for you and building a spec or Stage build setup for you.
The good news is you have choices. Again, these are just my educated opinions on this. You will get plenty of others i am sure. You will also get some downright angry responses to my opinions. That is ok. In the world of factory air suspension, mild hybrid, and the rear locker, JLR is still pretty reliable in the big scheme of things. Your misfortune is probably in the minority. But the term ," If it isnt there, it wont fail" does hold some weight in this arena. Good luck with the journey and if you have questions, fire away! The whole goal is to get our into the world and enjoy it!
Coming from the LR4, I agree that the 110 cargo area is too small if you are hauling a family. Our kids are away at college and have their own cars so the 110 is now fine for me, my wife & dog.
I had the same disappointing quality experience with our 2023. Aside from missing features I ordered such as the 700 watt sound system, clear sight mirror and USB ports, it had all sorts of odd electronic issues. Software upgrades would download but not install. Power management module failed, infotainment module failed and both took weeks to get. Sun sensor or inside temp sensor never worked right which caused the blower fan to run erratically. I'm pretty sure JLR turned to secondary suppliers for many of the 2023 electronic parts. Our 2021 had none of these issues so we kept the 2021 and traded-in the 2023 for a 2025. So far the 2025 has been flawless over 4 months and 8000 miles.
You can order an X-Dynamic SE with all the off road options and save money instead of ordering an X with the same features. Go to the Land Rover home page and use the "Build" feature to see the price difference. You just need to paint the SE brake calipers and tow hooks yourself if you want them in orange.
You are going to get a whole lot of opinions here. We specialize in this believe we have the best formula for an overland/off road build Defender spec. Lets focus on an overland build. We know when you are out in the middle of nowhere camping and exploring, the goal is to minimize the potential for failure and still offer cargo space and performance. Generally, when you build an overland setup, the goal is to keep it more long term than just trade it after a couple years.
1. The D130 would be great for overlanding because of the extra space, however it has some hurdles to conquer. You already mentioned the load space and fold flat. The 130 has thrid rows unless you go outbound, which is a very high spec and limited options. It also only has mild hybrid options. Otherwise, you can spec a V8 (im not the biggest fan of that engine) and tear out the seats which is not a bad option. However, your starting point for an build out is getting up there in price. I do like the 2nd row Captain's option. This would maybe work out well for a pop up camping style build.
2. I would spec a p300 4-cylinder D110. It is much less complex than other specs, weighs less and costs much less than a p400 mild hybrid. You have already experienced one major failure point of the hybrid system. The 110 also had a nice flat cargo floor. Plus the cargo space under the floor especially if you have the p300 without those 48 volt batteries in the back. With a proper maintenance interval, the p300 has plenty of power, and will likely be very problem free with a good maintenance schedule. My p300 has 120k miles and i couldn't be happier.
3. I would choose coil suspension vs air. This has been debated a lot. I have 1st hand experience with this and will say that yes there is the many benefits to air including load leveling and access mode to mention a few. In addition, having air also forces electronic dampening shocks to the build. There are many failures on these also. I just go back to less complex is less likely to fail. Coils with standard dampers are much more durable and simple. Adding some 2 inch lift springs with some small helper bags in the coils is a very simple and reliable setup that you never have to worry about.
3. I suggest to avoid the factory rear locking differential. I will tell you that the benefits are marginal. The drawbacks are right back into the complexity and reliability. This is not a typical electronic on/off locking differential like in other brands. It is a variable torque on demand ecu controlled differential. It has clutches in it. It requires special fluid. It also has a common faiure rate. There are service bulletins. On this unit. Many need to be replaced. I ran mine without any rear locker assistance for 2 years and never once did my vehicle make me feel like i needed it. It is so capable without one. It also adds more room in the under floor cargo area without it. It also has a much shorter left rear axle if it has a locker. This limits the down travel potential for the rear suspension if you want to add longer travel shocks which is much easier on a coil truck as mentioned above.
4. We spec our trucks with the 18 inch factory steel wheels. These are an easy fit and used to come stock on the p300 (another advantage to the 4 cylinder). No mods or shaving needed to fit them. The lug nuts are very simple acorn nuts, not the shoulder style aluminim covered lugs. This makes them easy to bolt on and off. No fuss. Also, if you bend or damage one, it can be hammered back out and easily fixed in the field. 18s also offer the best tire choices and the most sidewall for off road comfort and durability.
5. Get the trailer hitch, not the tow package. It is a nominal add on for a build but doesn't force air suspension like the tow package does. Remember the tow capacity and tongue weight rating for air and coils is the same. Also the tongue weight for a p300 and p400 is the same. 770lbs. The p300 is just a little less overall trailer weight capacity. But technically, you can run a weight distribution hitch on a coil truck safely to help with sway and sag. This in my opinion is a better heavy towing setup than air suspension. Either way, if you have to add the hitch after the fact, it is much more money.
6. Get the interior options that you want. Some want less, some want more. These options are hard to add later. Cooled seats, leather. Premium sound and so on. Just remember that a lot of the software features like terrain response 2 can be added easily after the fact.
7. We spec all of our Defenders in fuji white. This is because it does not show the scraches and dirt nearly as badly as any of the colors (especially black). It also stays a lot cooler in the summertime in the very hot climates. I do love the other colors available and would not kick them out of bed, but the white overland setup is much more purpose built.
8. As you mentioned, i would let the aftermarket handle your mods and accessories. The factory ones are ok, but this is where companies like us, LK8, Saltek and many others shine. In addition, we can offer you advise and even come out on the trails with you. It tends to be more of a relationship than just a transaction. Also we are just a phone call away. We can help with small questions all the way up to finding a truck for you and building a spec or Stage build setup for you.
The good news is you have choices. Again, these are just my educated opinions on this. You will get plenty of others i am sure. You will also get some downright angry responses to my opinions. That is ok. In the world of factory air suspension, mild hybrid, and the rear locker, JLR is still pretty reliable in the big scheme of things. Your misfortune is probably in the minority. But the term ," If it isnt there, it wont fail" does hold some weight in this arena. Good luck with the journey and if you have questions, fire away! The whole goal is to get our into the world and enjoy it!
Sarek those are all interesting points. I have had my 2006 LR3 since new and I do love the air suspension but I understand the concerns. I have found it to be very reliable and the bags are cheap and easy to change but what does happen is the pump seems to be a weak spot. The LR3 is on Johnson rods with 18” rims and 32” tires. I love my Defender but that LR3 is probably what I should be focusing on. Cutting into the Defender 110X to replace bumpers and add winches is hard to stomach when I spent 100k.
I did not know all that about the locking Diff. I will have to give that some thought. I had intended to add things to the Defender but so far all I did was add the rear lights, some ditch lights, a midland radio and antenna. I keep looking at Bull bars and winches which is where I am stuck. I like the utility and look of a standard hooped bull bar but the minimalist and less destructive addition of something like the sport bar at new defender might be what I do. I probably just need to remove the factory rack and get a better one but like the front skid plate you have this feeling that I paid a lot of money for this.
As is I could just go out with people and enjoy and figure out things as I go along. I think you are far from CA if I recall correctly. I did get a nice off road trailer and my setup is coming along.
The dealer gave me the Outbound spec of the 130 and I was planning a road trip with my trailer but a little worried about hurting their car. I put PPF on mine to help with the pinstripes. Black Bean Trailer, Thule box to help with poor load space.
With Landrover i think it hits that depreciation floor about 30 min after driving it off the lot!
Seriously … I have been waiting to mod my 110X until I finish having all these problems in case I don’t keep it. Been thinking what I want to do. I have Johnson Rods on the LR3 and that has been fine for about 10 years now. Was able to get good 32” tires on there.
If I decide to get a new Defender vs a Toyota or Ineos then I will have to think about that. I have no need for a third row so that kills the Outbound … although the one that the dealer has me driving has no third row but I can see where it would go. Deletes a nice space under the load space where I had some supplies.
The problem is the Tariffs. If I don’t get the in stock models which are specced to go to Costco and the Opera …. I would have to order and if he hits the EU I would have to hold off. For now I am in love with what I have when it is home and not at the dealer.
If I lived closer to someone like Sarek or Lucky8 I might turn my truck over to them to get it done. I did just spend more than the cost of this truck on another money hole hobby so maybe I just need to travel with a friend with a winch for now instead of doing my own.
I tend to side with Sarek. I went 110 P300, 18" Steel Wheels for simplicity and went all in on the interior (Vintage Tan Windsor leather, front cooler, air purifier etc.)
I'd say the Outbound is a pretty decent starting point. It has almost the same amount of equipment as your X, and the off-road packages that are standard on the X are available on the Outbound. Sure, the departure angle is decreased, but I have a friend with a nodded 130 Outbound and he said that the departure angle isn't as bad as it seems. Even the folks at the LR Experience center at the Biltmore Estate told me they were worried about the departure angle and it ended up not being a problem. My biggest problem with the Outbound is the lack of choices. You have four colors to choose from and forced to have the Ebony Windsor leather interior.
@sarek is the L663 guru, and provided excellent points in his post above. I agree with him on everything other than the air suspension, but that's just my personal preference and it fits my use case better than the coils. I also had no choice other than air suspension, as it was standard when I ordered mine.
I have a 2021 110 P300. Air suspension was standard at the time and I personally would always spec air suspension. Better ride quality, more ground clearance at the push of a button and easier to get in/out thanks to access height. The adaptive dampers give you better body control, and the air suspension has a significantly higher amount of suspension articulation than the stock coil-sprung vehicles. I don't know why the standard coils have terrible articulation, but there are aftermarket coil springs that fix this problem. Maybe @sarek can explain why this is the case. That being said, I've had a lot of seat time in coil-sprung Defenders and the ride quality is still very good. The air suspension is smoother and more compliant over broken pavement, but the coils do ride exceptionally well and still have over 9" of ground clearance.
I think the P300 is a great engine. It is more than adequate and has plenty of pulling power and has no problems getting up to speed. There is a bit of turbo lag at wide open throttle under 3000 rpm, but in normal driving, it is linear and predictable. It is also quiet and refined as well, which can't be said about this same engine in other JLR products such as the E-Pace or Discovery Sport. It isn't as efficient as the P400, as it has to work a bit harder and it lacks the MHEV system, but you don't buy one of these cars for fuel economy.
I do have the rear locking differential and I agree it isn't necessary at all. I also haven't had any problems with it other than a slight clunk that is normal that went away after changing the fluid. Changing the fluid every 30k instead of 60k is what I will be doing going forward. In older LRs like the LR4, the rear differential made a big difference. Thanks to the L663's new electronic architecture, the ABS, traction control and ESP can react so quickly, that the rear differential is borderline obsolete. Say there are two Defenders specced exactly the same, but one has the rear diff and the other doesn't, the one without will go through everything the rear diff can, with just a little more wheel spin. LR's Terrain Response system and traction control has always been the best of the best, but its on another level with the L663.
You have interesting points. I do really enjoy the pep in my 400 engine. I was really surprised when I first drove it. I had never thought of a locking differential as optional before. That will take some thinking. I have been watching it and it seems to “lock” every time I accelerate.
I had a similar problem when I first leased my LR3. It came time to turn it in and I could not find one with the HD package without ordering from factory so I kept this one and have been happy ever since.
The dealer says 63k for my low mileage perfect condition 2023 110X that I paid 100k cash for. Looking online I am sure I could beat that by at least 10k. This is a lot to think about.
I will need to add a winch and sliders at some point. Thinking of doing Lucky 8 because they include instructions. One frustration with Newdefendermods is getting instructions before buying. I like to read through and see what is involved.
Best Defender model for overlanding Thinking of trading in my 2023 110X (lemon?)
