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Of course it’s never recommended to drive winter tires in warm weather. That’s why depending on where you live, it might make sense to go with all weathers. I tried them years ago though and missed the performance of real snows, so I do the switch. Do it myself usually in an hour.
Watch the video. the Cross Climate 2s beat half of the true snow tires. They made a compound that adapts to the temps so its slated towards pure winter tire with none of the draw backs they have in the summer and great wear better than all seasons. Basically very close to true snows (Beats many of them) but with superior dry vs the snows.
Obviously dedicated winter/snow tires will be the best for.. winter and snow. Though KO2's are definitely not useless in NE winters, which are pretty much identical to ours.
We deal with insane weather here in the Midwest, and I think they're remarkable in snow, ice, slush conditions. Again, how you drive is going to affect your perception of a tire's performance, so maybe I err on the careful side.
Hard-packed snow and ice. Snowy, muddy gravel and dirt tracks. Slushy, icy roads with snow.
No question Michelin makes a great tire and I wouldn’t fault anyone for getting an all weather in the right climate. The video makes a good case for these for many people. I look at this a bit differently though. Winter is when really bad things can happen to a 5,000 lb beast so I want a tire for the absolute worst winter can throw at me. I don’t want any compromise when I’m trying to get through a blizzard with my family in the car. I had what was arguably the best all weather, the Nokian WR range, and they just weren’t as good as the Hakka’s in the worst conditions. I’ll put up with some downsides on pavement and an hour of labor every switch in return for the best possible grip in the absolute worst weather. I don’t buy these for the mild days and want a no compromise tire when the sh#t hits the windshield.
No question Michelin makes a great tire and I wouldn’t fault anyone for getting an all weather in the right climate. The video makes a good case for these for many people. I look at this a bit differently though. Winter is when really bad things can happen to a 5,000 lb beast so I want a tire for the absolute worst winter can throw at me. I don’t want any compromise when I’m trying to get through a blizzard with my family in the car. I had what was arguably the best all weather, the Nokian WR range, and they just weren’t as good as the Hakka’s in the worst conditions. I’ll put up with some downsides on pavement and an hour of labor every switch in return for the best possible grip in the absolute worst weather. I don’t buy these for the mild days and want a no compromise tire when the sh#t hits the windshield.
+1
Exactly! What's the point of getting something that's not the best possible when it comes to safety equipment which in my opinion winter tires are.
Nokian technology/engineering and Innovation are very impressive. I have the hakkapeliitta R5 on my EV and they do not affect the range at all as they have such low rolling resistance as opposed to other winter tires which would significantly affect range adversely. Plus the R3 demonstrated very long tread life according to multiple Tesla owners reports and the R5 is the improved version of the R5 so I am confident that the R5 would also have long tread life unlike something like the blizzak that many reported last less than 15k miles.
Exactly! What's the point of getting something that's not the best possible when it comes to safety equipment which in my opinion winter tires are.
Nokian technology/engineering and Innovation are very impressive. I have the hakkapeliitta R5 on my EV and they do not affect the range at all as they have such low rolling resistance as opposed to other winter tires which would significantly affect range adversely. Plus the R3 demonstrated very long tread life according to multiple Tesla owners reports and the R5 is the improved version of the R5 so I am confident that the R5 would also have long tread life unlike something like the blizzak that many reported last less than 15k miles.
Because there is no BEST its all in your head. Get Chains! Get studs! there is always a compromise there is no best tire for all conditions. You can't swap on the fly either. Soon as you hit dry wet then the pure snows are no longer the BEST for that condition and now you put the family at risk again. So you going to pull over and swap for rain tires? Come on man
The best way to get the best tires is to drive on the same conditions every day. In Michigan it changes fast from ton of snow
to dry as a bone to rain to sleet and back again. In the UP its a bit more stable in the winter where pure snows would make more sense. So it depends where you live. So in my area im thinking the All weathers might be the best for fast changing conditions where you can't swap a tire on the fly for.
I use to think that but that has changed. I've had the Nokiens on 3 cars and they are decent in the winter but had poor wear and not great in warmer weather. Some of the newer All weather tires can compete with true snow tires but crush true snow tires in rain, wear, dry, breaking.
Of course there is BEST. it's not in my head, it's in the data of testing and use cases.
The BEST winter tire in this case does not mean a tire that will perform the best in every situation. What it means is it will perform the best in overall "winter" application.
LIke someone mentioned above, if one is going to use the vehicle in a milder climate and/or with frequent rain, then such "best" winter tire of course would not be the "best". But this thread is about "winter" tires and not "rain tires" or "the tire that has the longest tread life" or "all season tires with 3 peak snow rating" or "what can I do besides getting winter tires to ensure I won't get stuck on the road in winter " or "what's the best tire IN MY AREA"...
So there you have it...so come on man or rather straw man!
Originally Posted by RAJOD
Because there is no BEST its all in your head. Get Chains! Get studs! there is always a compromise there is no best tire for all conditions. You can't swap on the fly either. Soon as you hit dry wet then the pure snows are no longer the BEST for that condition and now you put the family at risk again. So you going to pull over and swap for rain tires? Come on man
The best way to get the best tires is to drive on the same conditions every day. In Michigan it changes fast from ton of snow
to dry as a bone to rain to sleet and back again. In the UP its a bit more stable in the winter where pure snows would make more sense. So it depends where you live. So in my area im thinking the All weathers might be the best for fast changing conditions where you can't swap a tire on the fly for.
Watch the video. the Cross Climate 2s beat half of the true snow tires. They made a compound that adapts to the temps so its slated towards pure winter tire with none of the draw backs they have in the summer and great wear better than all seasons. Basically very close to true snows (Beats many of them) but with superior dry vs the snows.
Neither of those videos did a proper comparison with snow tires. The first one compared track performance with one, unnamed winter tire, and the winter segment was only in dry snow. The second only tested all-season tires.
If you think that track times in warm and wet, or even in dry snow, are an appropriate metric for winter tire performance then you probably have a completely different use case than those who regularly drive in mixed winter conditions and care primarily about low-speed traction when it is seriously slippery. I'll take that any day over being able to shave a couple of seconds off a track run once the weather warms up a bit, which in any case doesn't mean that the tire has become unsafe. The real downside of snow tires is the wear rate in warm weather. I swap them out before that prevails.
If you think that track times in warm and wet, or even in dry snow, are an appropriate metric for winter tire performance then you probably have a completely different use case than those who regularly drive in mixed winter conditions and care primarily about low-speed traction when it is seriously slippery.
^This. Show me a winter tire - all weather tire comparison test when:
- Evening mist and fog followed by a temp drop to 25 overnight which results in morning black ice. Happens where I live outside Boston near the ocean.
- It's 25 degrees out and raining with the rain freezing on impact. (MLK weekend at Sunday River, Maine)
- 35 degrees and snowing with thick slush on the road. (Stowe access road clogged by SUV's that can't make it up the access road with 4 spinning all season tires)
- Blizzard conditions where all you look for is the next reflector along the right road shoulder. (I-89 in VT many times)
You do what works best for you. But my goal is keeping my family safe and it's worth it to me to buy winter tires and spend an hour installing them. Plus I know I put them on at the correct torque and can get the lug nuts off if I get a flat tire.
^This. Show me a winter tire - all weather tire comparison test when:
- Evening mist and fog followed by a temp drop to 25 overnight which results in morning black ice. Happens where I live outside Boston near the ocean.
- It's 25 degrees out and raining with the rain freezing on impact. (MLK weekend at Sunday River, Maine)
- 35 degrees and snowing with thick slush on the road. (Stowe access road clogged by SUV's that can't make it up the access road with 4 spinning all season tires)
- Blizzard conditions where all you look for is the next reflector along the right road shoulder. (I-89 in VT many times)
You do what works best for you. But my goal is keeping my family safe and it's worth it to me to buy winter tires and spend an hour installing them. Plus I know I put them on at the correct torque and can get the lug nuts off if I get a flat tire.
"Stowe access road clogged by SUV's that can't make it up the access road with 4 spinning all season tires"
01-01-2023, 07:09 PM
