I don’t care about status any. I love cars though. I place LR in the same status as the Ferraris and Aston that I’ve owned: toys. They aren’t meant to be taken too seriously. The LR has its attributes, but quality and durability they are not. Everyone knows that.

The Toyota LC is engineered to last 25+ years in a third world country. It is the world’s best built automobile and has been for years. Mercedes used to hold that mantle.

 

Not sure a Toyota vs Land Rover discussion adds any value to the thread. I really liked the LC200, but it didn't fit the bill for various reasons and we got a D5 (which my wife loves as her daily, I barely get to drive it anymore ).

I have always liked the LR seating position and visibility (my brother had a LR3, now LR4 and we can the D5), I have just seen a Defender at the dealer yesterday and wonder if it has that classic LR "view" from inside the cabin.

I'm looking forward to get more feedback on the Defender, particularly in regards to the interior space/usability. Still toying with the idea to see if will work for me as a daily, but I'm not up for a MHEV type engine and would prefer a 6cyl diesel.

Guess we will have to wait a few more weeks to get more info. Also not seen any updates to engine options, as the current ones are a non starter for me.

 

In all seriousness, JLR and it’s parent, Tata, are heading to bankruptcy. They probably were already, but the CV-19 situation may be the nail in the coffin. Tata only has about $5 billion in market cap now. For a global carmaker, that’s like a few $5s and $10s in your console to get you by for a week. JLR is in deep trouble.

 

Ok Husker, now you’re starting to sound overly alarmist and working in some mild economic data cherry picked out to strengthen a weak argument that is full of speculation.

For the record, whether or not an auto brand falls in to bankruptcy or is sold, or owned by “an Indian company” as you’ve earlier described and assembled by former communists as another quote from you, doesn’t really matter if the brand value is high. This isn’t Saab which was a brand with no potential buyers, or Lotus which was a company with no clear R&D engineering pipeline and it’s not even Aston Martin, which has a very tiny market share in a crowded segment.

Jaguar may be an issue, but LR and it’s line up are quite popular, have brand loyalty, remain status symbols, and has a rich history. Tata can tank, but LR will be purchased by someone.

Even Chrysler has fallen into bankruptcy, yet with Jeep, the brand survives. Why? Due to the above as mentioned for LR. No way were the Ram Truck, Jeep Wrangler, and Chrysler minivan going out of production and neither will the Range Rover, or Discovery, and now the Defender. The brand sells and people pay a premium for the privilege including you, no matter what you say on the internet, they still got your money and are likely to get it again if you feel the prestige is worth it.

Not a reflection on you per se, but everyone reading this is in the same boat and eager to put money down if reviews of the Defender are strong and it’s trending towards good reviews.

Are the cars expensive? Of course. Are the cars reliable? Of course not. Do most buyers care? Not as much as they probably should.

Just let it go man, you are on the losing end of a futile argument and most of these guys here aren’t moving over to Toyota...

 

The interior seating room is very similar to a D5 (and a D4). The cargo area is shorter (approx. 10 inches maybe)

 

I was able to drive the new Defender in California at the 4xFAR festival. Happily, they had a version like the P300 which I have on order. Everything about the Defender was as expected. The seats were good (I was worried because the latest version of the Evoque seats are too small, for me at least). The flat torque curve of the P300 was positively evident -- very helpful in 4WD. The nterior room was same as the D5, except a little shorter in the rear area. The seating height was good -- like the D4. The tire guy was there and showed me the avalable heavy duty off road 20 and 18 inch Goodyear tires (I ordered the 18 inch as I will drive it offroad more than a little) . A BIG improvement over the 19 inch street tires on myD4 !!

Other questions let me know.

 

Yes, I think the inline six with the mild hybrid approach (a MB invented gimmick in my opinion) is unnecessary. That is a rocket of a vehicle (an AMG type), which misses the point for me. So, I ordered the P300, which should be sufficient, unless I end up towing long distances across US interstates. That said, LR will sell thousands of the inline six version. It will be a hit.

 

Sounds more promising. The D5 length is good, but it is a bit narrow with the battery area on one side and the 4 zone climate on the other. Also not as high as I would like with the 3rd row tucked in the booth. It is OK though, but not great. Hope the defender is a bit wider though the entrance will be limited with the barn door, and it should hove more height in the cargo area than the D5. Maybe I should swing by the dealer sometime.

I really hope they get a 6cyl diesel version out at some point, good for utility and towing with good fuel range. The 4cyl turbo gas motor is probably Ok for most uses, but might get challenging with towing and heavy loads; I'm not a fan of a complex hybrid system for a vehicle like this with the P400, might work on a Range Rover for city duty mostly.

 

I think the P400 will come down to gearing ratios in 4 low for off-road use and off road towing while crawling off-road. Diesels were looking like a harder sell here in the states, but then the Wrangler oil burner comes out, so now calculus may have changed. I like the power for highway travel and think that MHEV tech has come far enough where you don’t need to fear failure in most applications. This won’t be a rock crawler, so the threat of boulders seriously knocking loose undercarriage parts may be minimized; plus there is a ton of armor and plate cover under the car.

I am with you on hoping for a wider stance with a higher sitting opening at the rear. Honestly I think the default ride height should be a 2’ lift. However, there is the coil version and hopes that it has a 2.5’ default lift, that with 33 in tires should give an impressive clearance for off-road application.

 

Looks like the first drive reviews for the New Defender were released from the embargo today! First impressions I’ve read all seem to be very positive although it’s not a Wrangler killer, which is ok.

Bronco should be unveiled soon by Ford, so we’ll finally have a series of serious off-readers to compete against one another for our dollars.

Hopefully the 3rd party market takes on the Defender, as an upgraded coil suspension and beefier Air suspension options would be great. Rock rails or tubes and some armor for the plastic bottom of the front bumper would be most welcome as well.

No better time for a collection of bug out vehicles than now.