@ADVAW8S thank you for posting the info and photos. This rig will have quite the following.

 

Nice walkaround with TFL. Thanks @ADVAW8S. I'm pretty stoked that it's 18 months out; gives me plenty of time to get very used to my L663 (I'll have had it for 2 years by the time they start shipping the Grenadier). So I'll likely go ahead and finalize an order, take delivery, use it for a little bit, and make a final decision about which one to sell at that point. I'd say I'm theirs to lose; I think I'll love the off-roading abilities, as the machine/human interface is so much more familiar to me after years of Jeep experience, so it's really the road manners that will make or break it for me. I doubt it's possible that a live-axle body-on-frame truck will equal the Defender, but if it can get close enough for my wife to sign off I'll probably keep the Ineos. If not, I dunno. Maybe I'll get rid of her MB SUV and replace with whatever flavor of LR she prefers and keep the Ineos for me. Problem is, she loves the Defender, but it's too big for her to drive around the city, and I don't know if she'll love a Disco or Evoque or whatever.

 

I wonder about the future of the brand -- 20 years from now what Grenadier models will exist? Will it become the off-road offering from a Chinese manufacturer or Porsche or some such? Will the volume go high enough to ensure parts availability in 2040?

I do wonder about the BMW engine. JLR products with those engines were somewhat problematic, if I recall.

I do not buy vehicles by looks, but I look forward to hearing from those who consider looks as important. Seeing the Grenadier makes me respect a bit more those designers who build beautiful vehicles.

I expect the off-road performance will be the same as the G-wagon and neither will be as capable of finding traction as the new Defender. Yes, its a trade off with complexity, I understand. A serious point of consideration.

I am happy to see the existence of the product and happy to see it will tow a horse trailer (which firmly sets it competitors -- said another way it is not a Jeep Wrangler or a Ford Bronco).

I am looking forward to seeing one in the U.S. in person in a year or so, to understand how it feels in person.

Enjoy !!

 

That’s a pretty bold statement considering there is no published off-road data on the Grenadier.
It’s tough to compare (on paper) a “computerized” off-road system (Defender), with an analog off-road system (Grenadier with triple lockers).
Then there’s the tire issue - which many would say is the most important factor in a good off-road vehicle. The Grenadier can be optioned with “real” off-road tires on 17” wheels. The Defender, not so much (Many don’t consider 20” Goodyear Adventure tires to be a “real” off-road combination).
Until someone does a comparison test, let’s just say both are off-road capable.

 

Respectfully, I am not comparing them on paper.

And I am not saying the G-wagon is not off-road capable, certainly. These and several Toyotas, Jeeps, some Ford trucks, older model Land Rovers (including my two LR4s) are all "off-road" capable, as compared to an on-road sedan.

I have driven them all, as well as the Evoque and my new 2020 Defender.

I am off-road (often within 50 feet of a paved road) in my new Defender in all weather conditions 4 to 5 times per week. And yes, I am saying that no old-school, manual-locking-differential, 4 wheeled vehicle with equivalent tires and tire pressure can find and utilize available traction at slow speeds to the degree that new Defender can -- and do so with as little damage to the surface of the track.

This is the only reason I bought the new Defender as early as I could obtain one (that and its above 7000 lb. towing capacity). Traction at very slow speeds with little damage to the track and the ability to motor forward in unpleasant conditions.

That is my only criteria. I do not have the time to get stuck, I have to drive the vehicle to accomplish tasks, so the value in serving that single criteria is sufficient for me.

And yes, there are comparison videos all over the net which confirm that for my single criteria, the electronics as set up and enabled in the new Defender are best at my single point of measure.

Enjoy !!

 

I agree. And I think any comparison test will be inconclusive other than with respect to the exact conditions used in the test. In the case of the sort of greasy mud Trio often encounters in the real world I trust his assessment of the Defender's capabilities and suspect it will defeat a Jeep/Ineos/pickup with old school tech. But in the backcountry of SE Utah, jury is still out. At any rate, to play in that arena the Defender needs some fairly drastic mods that are trivial on a Wrangler but invasive, expensive, and difficult on the Defender P400: true rock rails, winch, 18s with at least 33s (35s or larger preferred). If those goodies are as easy to source and install on a Grenadier as on a Jeep, it becomes a likely more competent rock crawler than the D110.

EDIT: Trio said essentially the same thing while I was typing.

 

Yea, I can attest to that. Not to mention a royal pain in the A.

 

I agree with NoGaBiker.

I would not buy a new Defender for the sole purpose of going far off-road, or if I did not need to tow above 7000 pound sometimes, and if I was free to lift the vehicle and trick it out like a Jeep Wrangler to play in the big rocks of Utah. I would be very very hesitant to overland the new Defender with Air and all that far far away from rescue.

I would also never seriously compare the new Defender to a Jeep Wrangler or any other vehicle which cannot tow at least 7000 lbs. It's Jeep competition IMO is the Grand Cherokee and its ilk. If the vehicle cannot tow a multi-horse trailer, it is not a competitor to the Defender IMO. I say this because the design compromises to tow that amount of weight are markedly significant IMO. Comparably, I would never compare the Grand Cherokee or a new Defender to a 14000 lb tow capable pick up truck.

Enjoy !!

 

Thank you for all the information and pictures,I have a spot on the list but am not sure if I will get it my defender is rock solid so far.

 

I wonder about the future of the brand -- 20 years from now what Grenadier models will exist? Will it become the off-road offering from a Chinese manufacturer or Porsche or some such? Will the volume go high enough to ensure parts availability in 2040? My understanding is they want to build a company and not a one-time deal. I think they get bought out by someone else. In the meantime, they are looking at Hydrogen and EV as engine options down the line. From a volume stance, they can produce 63k vehicles a year and with the introduction of the pickup, they should meet the need. If it becomes a sucess, I would say yes in terms of parts availability. The nice part is they haven't gone too far outside the box for parts.

I do wonder about the BMW engine. JLR products with those engines were somewhat problematic, if I recall. The engine being used is the B58 which has been found to be very reliable. Toyota is now using it in the new supra. There is a great tear-down video on the engine. The engine was being torn apart because the person hydro locked it and it blew a rod. The mechanic breaking it down kept saying how impressed he was in there will minimal damage to the engine besides the area the rod blew out. He actually had no clue what caused the engine to go bad until he got cylinder number 6 and saw the bent rod.

I do not buy vehicles by looks, but I look forward to hearing from those who consider looks as important. Seeing the Grenadier makes me respect a bit more those designers who build beautiful vehicles.

I expect the off-road performance will be the same as the G-wagon and neither will be as capable of finding traction as the new Defender. Yes, its a trade off with complexity, I understand. A serious point of consideration. Agree, the video of the Kentucky mud tells you all you need to know on why L663

I am happy to see the existence of the product and happy to see it will tow a horse trailer (which firmly sets it competitors -- said another way it is not a Jeep Wrangler or a Ford Bronco).

I am looking forward to seeing one in the U.S. in person in a year or so, to understand how it feels in person.

Some thoughts in Bold