Anyone try the Redarc battery monitor? Or the portable second battery option?

 

One of my pet peeves. OBDLink MX BT is permanently in cars that I drive often; the current draw is negligible and I could leave it for a week in a JK without risking running the battery down. Also the first thing I was doing when getting in the car was starting Torque on the phone, and setting the phone into the cradle with realtime telemetry screen on. Logs in case you need a post-mortem, or care to run the data for long term trend analysis. Free GPS trail, too.

Fun fact: OBDII socket has a direct battery terminal connection, per specifications.

 

Not a complete substitute, but at least gives you some information - OBDII port reports battery voltage and if you have a gizmo to read it in real time then you have means to alert on it (and have the logs to look at).

 

It's an AGM battery. It's definitely not lithium.

I'll be trying this shortly.

 

I stand corrected, AGM. It is of no real consequence, the small battery has its own BMS installed internally. Was looking into making one for a bud going to Burning Man and came across this in the reviews:

Image of BMS internal to the battery

So it does its own charge controlling, no need for special charger, the Current monitor. and voltage gage give you pretty much all you need to keep track of the system. Redarc and such are way overkill on something like this. It would seem on further inspection, most of the LiFe batteries now have their own BMS system internally installed, so special chargers are not necessary any longer. Would kind of explain why the other installation I did coming up on 4 years ago is still running strong. This particular battery, which is on the silly side of inexpensive, is good for 2,000 cycles.

If the battery is AGM it is one of the worst match ups for system load I have seen in decades. With the intense draw of the Defender (and pretty much all the new tech heavy cars) they should have installed Deep Cycle designed batteries. Since the Defender will draw the battery down below what is considered healthy in a short time. Do it enough and it loses capacity, like mine have. Even the one in my wife's RR Evoque has died and been replaced in the first year. The electrical systems have been the victim of trying to look green. They attempt to achieve this by putting a small battery, lower material burden, charge only to 80% most of the time, saves gas for economy numbers and put in a bunch of instantly available tech, which does that 10 amps for 10 minute thing when you open the door, but wows the customer with cool tech that is there in your face.

I was suckered by all the tech coolness which resulted in a vehicle that is basically unsuited for wilderness work. Should have kept the 97 Defender. Hopefully somebody will put out a vehicle that has some of the tech and an electrical system that actually works in the field. My bud has said he may be able to get us three Grenadiers next year for the field work in Africa. If we do an evaluation in the field and some promotional videos and such. Nic is a professional Safari Guide, so he may be able to pull it off. They did give him one for a week this last fall (our spring) in Zambia as a teaser. Hopefully see how they work out.

 

I don't really see the Grenadier as being a great upgrade. Nor a 97 Defender. The Defender has more electronic accessories than the other 2, but it is more reliable than a 97 Defender and the Grenadier has just as many electronics on mission critical systems as the Defender (motor, transmission, diffs, etc,etc).

The electrical system on the Defender is not just "trying to look green", it actually allows LR to meet fleet requirements for fuel economy and, above all, emissions requirements. All the while still delivering the performance a modern consumer thinks he/she needs. The MHEV system is a necessity for all of this: Toyota has an almost identical system in the new Land Cruisers.

The one thing I do agree with you on to 100% is the fact that LR does not spend enough development time on figuring out how to keep the vehicles from drawing too much power while they are parked. And the fact that there is no "camping mode" or similar to keep all of the accessory systems from booting up every time a door is opened. But we may or may not be working on a solution for this :-p

As far as wilderness work goes, the day of a hammer, a screwdriver and bailing wire only are definitely gone. See above on fuel economy, emissions and power. But we did run an ad once in a journal for overlanders that expresses what I truly believe - in addition to the hammer, screwdriver and bailing wire (duct tape) there is one more tool required in your tool roll:


And in some ways repairs ae actually easier today than 50 years ago. Would you have been able to tell within minutes why your motor quit on a 1975 LR 109? If it were diesel? A diagnostic system will often tell you exactly what the problem is. And field repairs are that much easier.

And just a couple of other items:
- Deep cycle batteries are not suited as starter batteries as they can't handle an extremely high current draw - such as for a starter. AGM batteries are much more suited for this and can handle being discharged to low levels and still recover. And yes, doing this does affect the batteries longevity, but it is still much better than a regular lead-acid battery. So AGM is actually most suited. Which is why other manufacturers are doing the same wit this sort of MHEV set up.
- Your AGM battery does not have a BMS per se, at least not compared to a lithium battery (and lithium batteries are generally much better off with a BMS regardless of chemistry). The "BMS" for the 12V battery is simply there to tell the DC-DC charger when to charge the 12V battery from the 48V MHEV battery as you don't have a 12V alternator with MHEV. If your needs dictate a house battery, a Redarc system is anything but overkill.

For watching a movie a Burning Man, I'd find a place to loan me a big *** power station (i.e. Ecoflow or similar) for the weekend. Or week.

 

Well, we tried a power station at AfrikaBurn this spring, didn't go well. They are actually very slow to re-charge, like put it to charge first thing in the morning and pick it up at dark and maybe it will be fully charged (I can use the generator at DPW, since I am the head of Airspace crew). As for field repairs, I defy you to find any part for the new Defender in Namibia. You will have to get it in from South Africa and then there is the princely sum customs will want, along with the assorted delays. Nic, well he has an old diesel 110 and there are parts everywhere, aside from the repairs being quite straight forward. Rarely, even on my old Series III Diesel was the problem something like # 2 Oxygen sensor fault. It was usually just a loose something or other. The Grenadier, well he was impressed with the vehicle for the week he had it in Zambia. I will hopefully find out in April how it performs. As for deep cycle and starting. My boat had Optima deep cycle batteries and never had issue starting the Merc 225's I had on the Fountain 26'. Anyhow, we all have our own requirements. I do know a bit about designing and maintaining complicated electrical systems. It is what I did as an Aviation Engineering Duty Officer, ran rebuild programs and test flew electronic warfare aircraft. Then designed them for Electospace. I would have been fired if I put out an aircraft with such a poorly designed electrical system. In the Civil Aviation world, it would result in a legal action by the FAA as it does not meet minimum reserve power requirements on a load analysis.

While the old Lucas legendary electrical systems were decorative vice functional. At least Land Rover put a hand crank to start it with behind the driver's seat, acknowledging it was utter ****e. My 97 Defender was the first one with OBD diagnostics. Nice, but not really necessary. This one, well yeah, don't leave home without it. Then I am going to have a pile of shrouds and BS to remove to get even close to the offending Crank Position Sensor. BTW, I just love all the plastic fir tree push in fasteners that break off every time you remove a part (super green engineering there). Then there is the GAP or whatever wizard code reader you may have to read all this is moot if the electrical system is flat to begin with. Yes, troubleshoot your dead vehicle in the field with it. Heck I can hook up a mule to an old 110, drag it to a downhill section and bump start it. Somehow, I suspect that won't work on these.

While the MHEV makes low speed high torque starts a breeze. It makes for a very complicated vehicle that is basically unsuited for wilderness work. Unless you have a friend with a 4x4 flatbed Jeri-Dan. The electrical design, with everything needing slotting in with programing along with mechanically fitting it, makes retrofitting solutions a non-start. Again, these issues are not just JLR, it is every car out there at the moment. Like I mentioned, even my wife's Evoque has the same problems with batteries dying about every 6-8 months. Ya think there is a trend here? Yes I totally believe that much of this stems from trying to be green. My oldest friend, from grade school was lead electronic designer for Emerson (the guys that make everything from refrigerators to forklifts). He was directly involved in trying to get the energy ratings and the coveted gold starts from the US and EU for being green. They did this mainly by removing material in the construction of batteries and motors. It also made them last a fraction of what they did before, but the rating measure material used and weight them just the same for rating purposes. They knew this going in. The ratings do not measure longevity, just that period of evaluation. The EU wants everything to be recycled at 10 years, even my camera! Besides, how green is tossing a battery every 6-8 months? I seem to recall that Exide, has some issue with its battery recycling centers being not so green, in fact many of them where recently shut down due to violations.

I'm sure this symbol is hiding someplace on the Defender:

 

You just touched a raw nerve.

I had to overhaul the engine cooling on a 20+ year old vehicle recently; it took taking apart half of the engine compartment and two adults to get the lower radiator hose out - one of them was standing on the radiator, the other was pulling.

Anecdotally, that was a "quick connect" system. As I was cursing about it, it dawned on me - it is a quick connect, not quick disconnect. Nobody ever promised you that. Nor fasteners that would not fall apart (and don't get me started on self-tapping screws into plastic engine parts).

I'm waiting for the moment the humanity realizes that producing objects with planned obsolescence is a slow suicide, but not holding my breath for that, for my life will be really short if I do.

 

Whooly poop, batman. Slow down a bit. You're tossing out bits and pieces of arguments like rusty nails out of a coffee can. Hard to keep up.

This would surprise me as I know for a fact that there are quite a number of Defenders running in Namibia. LR still has a presence where they are running tours - mini versions of the press thing they did for the L663's launch. But I will be there in October and will def check up on it and report back. Maybe their Defenders are so reliable that they simply don't need parts. :-))

And I'm very glad you never had any issues with your deep cycle battery. Please let Optima and the rest of the world know everyone's been doing it wrong all along.

Did ya read what I wrote?

Aircraft and motor vehicles may both have similar systems, but they are built for completely different environments. And legal environments. And forklifts are another item altogether.

And a couple of my oldest friends are engineers with aerospace companies or in the auto industry. As I am. But as you've got everything all figured out please don't let me stand in your way. You be you.

 

Land Rover's presence in Namibia is a joke. Let's see after a week spent in Windhoek. I had to go back into town to recover, had 3 broken ribs, needed a bed for a few days. I only saw three there. Walvis Bay, 0. Luderwitz, 0, Swakopmund, 0. That is after 45 days. So if Land Rover has market penetration it is very, very, very slight. Even in South Africa I have only seen a few dozen in Cape Town, none in Worcester, Ceres, Calvinia, or Clanwilliam. All places you rather would be using a rugged vehicle. I see none at the mines. Even at AfrikaBurn, playground of the rich, perhaps a half dozen. NamBurn, 0. Now probably saw 20,000 Hilux's to each Defender or 10,000 Ford Rangers or 4,000 old Defenders and Series vehicles. Nope the new Defender has virtually no presence in Africa. It's too expensive and too complicated. Besides there is really only one mall in Namibia. The sole mall is in Windhoek and I never saw any there. This is the track from the Garmin inReach, so I do get around, 9,522 km last trip (based on my rental receipt). To be fair, there are 0 Ford Broncos and a smattering of Jeeps. In fact at AfricaBurn (in the Tankwa Karoo desert), the only Jeep I saw was dead on the side of the road going to the entrance gate.

Yes very different requirements for cars and planes. However we are very constrained by regulations, physical space, pad loading and the fact we will be engineering for 4-100 examples at best. Gee JLR could take half the people off Team Puddle Lights and half from Team Colored Calipers and put them on the apparently 0 member Team Electrical System, to make the electrical system less of a joke. My RR had a huge battery, like hernia sized battery. The 97 Defender had an equally sized, but easier to get at battery and a ready made place for a second one.

This is not a wilderness vehicle, unless they do some changes, it never will be. Even my wife makes fun of this car and she has interfaced with my Land Rovers since university.

Again, what are these plugs for in the back? They don't work when you shut it down. Yes your totally going to run an extension cord up from to use your laptop with the 110V. No they realized if they left them accessible to the consumer on shutdown, they would quickly kill the diminutive battery. There is not even a switch to turn them on! They realize the vehicle is so limited in its electrical design.