Lexus GX Over Trail
#21
01-30-2024, 05:51 PM
This: "I'm sure I'm a minority of buyers, but the GX Overtrail is really tuned to attract folks like me. And for $80k buyers, why not?"
I have a very high tolerance to ignore crap after crap in forums. My thought process is: people write what they want and you choose to read or ignore it.
Man, in your case I have to make an exception and ask: please, for the love of God, just go ahead and put your deposit on a GX Overtrail and drop the act.
Better yet, join the GX Forum and praise all its glory there, instead of this continued whining here.
I have a very high tolerance to ignore crap after crap in forums. My thought process is: people write what they want and you choose to read or ignore it.
Man, in your case I have to make an exception and ask: please, for the love of God, just go ahead and put your deposit on a GX Overtrail and drop the act.
Better yet, join the GX Forum and praise all its glory there, instead of this continued whining here.
#22
01-30-2024, 09:02 PM
Three Wheeling
Ha!
Nice try, but you lose the argument as soon as you park your Defender next to a Rubicon or a Bronco Badlands or Wildtrack. Have you driven a Wildtrack? This is one of those Llyod Benson flashback moments: JLR, I've seen KO2 tires; I've driven a car in KO2s; I know how durable KO2s are; JLR, those off road treads you're putting on Defender are no KO2s... Suggesting Defender is top of the line in off road configurations makes you sound like Dan Quayle. It's not that Defender doesn't have off road tires; they do. Park Defender next to an X5 and it's a huge improvement; but is the X5 your metric? If Defender is to have an off road trim, didn't you wonder why JLR isn't selling Defender with one of the most popular off road tires? It's not just the tire, it's the space in the wheel arch for them to bang around a bit. Saying you can put some other off road tires on Defender is not the issue & you're overlooking a likely culprit: KO2s are heavy. You can put off road tires on a Forrester, but that's not what I'm talking about. IMO JLR is restricting tire choice by limiting 18" rims to the 2.0L engine. Goodyears with Kevlar may fit rims of 17-21" but it's not all the same: the sidewall should be a choice you get to make, not one made for you by JLR. JLR could put the stronger 3.0L engine in Defender with 18" rims and sell it with KO2s. If they did so, it would be a popular trim for sure. Tire choices go up when you go from a 19" rim to an 18" rim. It's not just rim size. The Defender has to have room in the wheel arch for big, heavy tires. The 2.0L is a good engine, but it's apparently not up to the KO2 entry fee. (By way of comparison, the GX has increased torque of 479 vs Defender at 295 - that 60% more than the 2.0L on Defender, and it gives GX owners more choices in the aftermarket because the engine is more capable.) It's clear Defender doesn't offer as many tire/rim choices as Wrangler, Bronco and the new GX will. Why? Why is JLR restricting after market tire choices for folks that just plunked down $80k? No other manufacturer in the off road market does that. Maybe it's because JLR has decided you don't need KO2s for Whole Foods? And that's the point. If you want to be in the off road SUV market, you have to spec out an SUV you can take off road. Lexus concedes the point. Although the GX may not come with KO2s, if you buy the Overtrail you'll be able to buy KO2s later on. Why would Lexus market an off road SUV that can't roll one of the most broadly accepted off road tire choices out there? Right? So Lexus is game on, same as the others. It's only JLR out there telling the buyer: "You don't really need a big sidewall. There's no difference. Buy these lighter, less durable, perhaps even thinner tires with low profiles instead!" Nope, not going to happen. I'm not saying JLR needs to make Defender super off road oriented. But at the same time, if JLR doesn't let the buyer configure Defender with one of the leading off road tire choices out there, what exactly is JLR saying? Right, Defender is for the shopping malls, and you don't need KO2s for that. Personally, I think JLR will get more competitive eventually. The 18" steel wheel is awesome, and the 3.0L engine is the winner compared to the 2.0L engine. Like chocolate and peanut butter, they will eventually put the two together.
I think JLR keeping Defender at the mall has given Lexus an opening for buyers that wanted their SUV to do something more than mall shopping. IMO, there's no way a GX Overtrail is going to lose in a head to head off road match with Defender as it's currently configured. For Defender to compete (and it could), it will need a trim fitted with more durable treads. The GX has the treads + alot of the off road tech from the older 200 LC; it's likely to be an absolute beast on bad terrain in a way that folks familiar with old GX are going to be like WTF it's like a LC! Yep, because it's getting alot of the LC tech, plus increased torque. Defender has lots of tech too, just as much if not more as GX. But didn't you stop to wonder what all that Defender tech is reliant upon? Right, the rubber beneath it. And that's the point. Defender trims today are about compromise, and I'm interested in Defender with a 3.0L engine, 18" steel wheels, and KO2s. If JLR were not so focused on 0-60 acceleration speeds, it may have allowed them to configure the 3.0L engine for increased torque but not as much acceleration, and allowing smaller calipers, and then the 18" rims. But a myopic drive to get "fast" Defenders produced required engines built for acceleration, big calipers to control that acceleration, and has lost some buyers not interested at all in the 0-60 number. I'm sure I'm a minority of buyers, but the GX Overtrail is really tuned to attract folks like me. And for $80k buyers, why not?
Nice try, but you lose the argument as soon as you park your Defender next to a Rubicon or a Bronco Badlands or Wildtrack. Have you driven a Wildtrack? This is one of those Llyod Benson flashback moments: JLR, I've seen KO2 tires; I've driven a car in KO2s; I know how durable KO2s are; JLR, those off road treads you're putting on Defender are no KO2s... Suggesting Defender is top of the line in off road configurations makes you sound like Dan Quayle. It's not that Defender doesn't have off road tires; they do. Park Defender next to an X5 and it's a huge improvement; but is the X5 your metric? If Defender is to have an off road trim, didn't you wonder why JLR isn't selling Defender with one of the most popular off road tires? It's not just the tire, it's the space in the wheel arch for them to bang around a bit. Saying you can put some other off road tires on Defender is not the issue & you're overlooking a likely culprit: KO2s are heavy. You can put off road tires on a Forrester, but that's not what I'm talking about. IMO JLR is restricting tire choice by limiting 18" rims to the 2.0L engine. Goodyears with Kevlar may fit rims of 17-21" but it's not all the same: the sidewall should be a choice you get to make, not one made for you by JLR. JLR could put the stronger 3.0L engine in Defender with 18" rims and sell it with KO2s. If they did so, it would be a popular trim for sure. Tire choices go up when you go from a 19" rim to an 18" rim. It's not just rim size. The Defender has to have room in the wheel arch for big, heavy tires. The 2.0L is a good engine, but it's apparently not up to the KO2 entry fee. (By way of comparison, the GX has increased torque of 479 vs Defender at 295 - that 60% more than the 2.0L on Defender, and it gives GX owners more choices in the aftermarket because the engine is more capable.) It's clear Defender doesn't offer as many tire/rim choices as Wrangler, Bronco and the new GX will. Why? Why is JLR restricting after market tire choices for folks that just plunked down $80k? No other manufacturer in the off road market does that. Maybe it's because JLR has decided you don't need KO2s for Whole Foods? And that's the point. If you want to be in the off road SUV market, you have to spec out an SUV you can take off road. Lexus concedes the point. Although the GX may not come with KO2s, if you buy the Overtrail you'll be able to buy KO2s later on. Why would Lexus market an off road SUV that can't roll one of the most broadly accepted off road tire choices out there? Right? So Lexus is game on, same as the others. It's only JLR out there telling the buyer: "You don't really need a big sidewall. There's no difference. Buy these lighter, less durable, perhaps even thinner tires with low profiles instead!" Nope, not going to happen. I'm not saying JLR needs to make Defender super off road oriented. But at the same time, if JLR doesn't let the buyer configure Defender with one of the leading off road tire choices out there, what exactly is JLR saying? Right, Defender is for the shopping malls, and you don't need KO2s for that. Personally, I think JLR will get more competitive eventually. The 18" steel wheel is awesome, and the 3.0L engine is the winner compared to the 2.0L engine. Like chocolate and peanut butter, they will eventually put the two together.I think JLR keeping Defender at the mall has given Lexus an opening for buyers that wanted their SUV to do something more than mall shopping. IMO, there's no way a GX Overtrail is going to lose in a head to head off road match with Defender as it's currently configured. For Defender to compete (and it could), it will need a trim fitted with more durable treads. The GX has the treads + alot of the off road tech from the older 200 LC; it's likely to be an absolute beast on bad terrain in a way that folks familiar with old GX are going to be like WTF it's like a LC! Yep, because it's getting alot of the LC tech, plus increased torque. Defender has lots of tech too, just as much if not more as GX. But didn't you stop to wonder what all that Defender tech is reliant upon? Right, the rubber beneath it. And that's the point. Defender trims today are about compromise, and I'm interested in Defender with a 3.0L engine, 18" steel wheels, and KO2s. If JLR were not so focused on 0-60 acceleration speeds, it may have allowed them to configure the 3.0L engine for increased torque but not as much acceleration, and allowing smaller calipers, and then the 18" rims. But a myopic drive to get "fast" Defenders produced required engines built for acceleration, big calipers to control that acceleration, and has lost some buyers not interested at all in the 0-60 number. I'm sure I'm a minority of buyers, but the GX Overtrail is really tuned to attract folks like me. And for $80k buyers, why not?
#24
01-31-2024, 11:56 AM
#25
01-31-2024, 12:33 PM
So, new to the LR scene. I’ve been a Toyota/Ford guy for a long time. I bought a Defender last night. I could have waited for the GX, or new LC. I think they are cool, but certainly not as upscale or unique in the market as a Defender. They all have heritages that they are building on and trade off’s along the way. I like the on road manners of the Defender over my last 4Runner and do not expect the LR to be as reliable.
However, the 23 Tundra I was in has some potential issues. Many people with 22+ tundras are having their engine’s grenade at an average of 27k miles. They say it’s oil starvation at the bearing. Toyota is only supplying a short block and rebuild with remaining parts. 2 people had their rebuild fail too. I decided to jump out of the tundra while I could still get close to what I paid for it. All this to say that there’s no guarantee of reliability from current Toyota/Lexus models either. It seems the pandemic reset everyone to average.
For now, if average is the best, I’ll average around in a Defender.
However, the 23 Tundra I was in has some potential issues. Many people with 22+ tundras are having their engine’s grenade at an average of 27k miles. They say it’s oil starvation at the bearing. Toyota is only supplying a short block and rebuild with remaining parts. 2 people had their rebuild fail too. I decided to jump out of the tundra while I could still get close to what I paid for it. All this to say that there’s no guarantee of reliability from current Toyota/Lexus models either. It seems the pandemic reset everyone to average.
For now, if average is the best, I’ll average around in a Defender.
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#26
01-31-2024, 01:55 PM
I do think that its pretty clear that if some one was to spend 2 or even 3 whole minutes scrolling through just the titles of the posts on this forum, that they would find a nearly infinite number of changes, modifications and upgrades they could preform on their chosen model. I think that the wide and varied applications of the Defender are a huge part of its appeal. That the Defender is more than capable of being outfitted to (clearly with the magical KO2's only) drive up the side of the Matterhorn as it is driving to the Met.
I also believe that JLR, Toyota, etc. have a pretty good inkling of what they are doing. These manufactures may have also done some sort of rudimentary cost/benefit analysis and discovered that if they produced a vehicle, configurable to the exacting specifications of every potential customer, it might end up being just a touch cost prohibitive. And not that I know for sure, but I would even gather that most vehicle manufactures actually rely on the after market to bolster the image of their production vehicles.
By they way....I am still rocking on the "factory" AT tires that The Smurf came with and quite frankly I think they are pretty spiffy!!!
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NativeTexan (02-03-2024)
#27
01-31-2024, 02:14 PM
Ha! Nice try, but you lose the argument as soon as you park your Defender next to a Rubicon or a Bronco Badlands or Wildtrack. Have you driven a Wildtrack? This is one of those Llyod Benson flashback moments: JLR, I've seen KO2 tires; I've driven a car in KO2s; I know how durable KO2s are; JLR, those off road treads you're putting on Defender are no KO2s... Suggesting Defender is top of the line in off road configurations makes you sound like Dan Quayle. It's not that Defender doesn't have off road tires; they do. Park Defender next to an X5 and it's a huge improvement; but is the X5 your metric? If Defender is to have an off road trim, didn't you wonder why JLR isn't selling Defender with one of the most popular off road tires? It's not just the tire, it's the space in the wheel arch for them to bang around a bit. Saying you can put some other off road tires on Defender is not the issue & you're overlooking a likely culprit: KO2s are heavy. You can put off road tires on a Forrester, but that's not what I'm talking about. IMO JLR is restricting tire choice by limiting 18" rims to the 2.0L engine. Goodyears with Kevlar may fit rims of 17-21" but it's not all the same: the sidewall should be a choice you get to make, not one made for you by JLR. JLR could put the stronger 3.0L engine in Defender with 18" rims and sell it with KO2s. If they did so, it would be a popular trim for sure. Tire choices go up when you go from a 19" rim to an 18" rim. It's not just rim size. The Defender has to have room in the wheel arch for big, heavy tires. The 2.0L is a good engine, but it's apparently not up to the KO2 entry fee. (By way of comparison, the GX has increased torque of 479 vs Defender at 295 - that 60% more than the 2.0L on Defender, and it gives GX owners more choices in the aftermarket because the engine is more capable.) It's clear Defender doesn't offer as many tire/rim choices as Wrangler, Bronco and the new GX will. Why? Why is JLR restricting after market tire choices for folks that just plunked down $80k? No other manufacturer in the off road market does that. Maybe it's because JLR has decided you don't need KO2s for Whole Foods? And that's the point. If you want to be in the off road SUV market, you have to spec out an SUV you can take off road. Lexus concedes the point. Although the GX may not come with KO2s, if you buy the Overtrail you'll be able to buy KO2s later on. Why would Lexus market an off road SUV that can't roll one of the most broadly accepted off road tire choices out there? Right? So Lexus is game on, same as the others. It's only JLR out there telling the buyer: "You don't really need a big sidewall. There's no difference. Buy these lighter, less durable, perhaps even thinner tires with low profiles instead!" Nope, not going to happen. I'm not saying JLR needs to make Defender super off road oriented. But at the same time, if JLR doesn't let the buyer configure Defender with one of the leading off road tire choices out there, what exactly is JLR saying? Right, Defender is for the shopping malls, and you don't need KO2s for that. Personally, I think JLR will get more competitive eventually. The 18" steel wheel is awesome, and the 3.0L engine is the winner compared to the 2.0L engine. Like chocolate and peanut butter, they will eventually put the two together.
I think JLR keeping Defender at the mall has given Lexus an opening for buyers that wanted their SUV to do something more than mall shopping. IMO, there's no way a GX Overtrail is going to lose in a head to head off road match with Defender as it's currently configured. For Defender to compete (and it could), it will need a trim fitted with more durable treads. The GX has the treads + alot of the off road tech from the older 200 LC; it's likely to be an absolute beast on bad terrain in a way that folks familiar with old GX are going to be like WTF it's like a LC! Yep, because it's getting alot of the LC tech, plus increased torque. Defender has lots of tech too, just as much if not more as GX. But didn't you stop to wonder what all that Defender tech is reliant upon? Right, the rubber beneath it. And that's the point. Defender trims today are about compromise, and I'm interested in Defender with a 3.0L engine, 18" steel wheels, and KO2s. If JLR were not so focused on 0-60 acceleration speeds, it may have allowed them to configure the 3.0L engine for increased torque but not as much acceleration, and allowing smaller calipers, and then the 18" rims. But a myopic drive to get "fast" Defenders produced required engines built for acceleration, big calipers to control that acceleration, and has lost some buyers not interested at all in the 0-60 number. I'm sure I'm a minority of buyers, but the GX Overtrail is really tuned to attract folks like me. And for $80k buyers, why not?
Nice try, but you lose the argument as soon as you park your Defender next to a Rubicon or a Bronco Badlands or Wildtrack. Have you driven a Wildtrack? This is one of those Llyod Benson flashback moments: JLR, I've seen KO2 tires; I've driven a car in KO2s; I know how durable KO2s are; JLR, those off road treads you're putting on Defender are no KO2s... Suggesting Defender is top of the line in off road configurations makes you sound like Dan Quayle. It's not that Defender doesn't have off road tires; they do. Park Defender next to an X5 and it's a huge improvement; but is the X5 your metric? If Defender is to have an off road trim, didn't you wonder why JLR isn't selling Defender with one of the most popular off road tires? It's not just the tire, it's the space in the wheel arch for them to bang around a bit. Saying you can put some other off road tires on Defender is not the issue & you're overlooking a likely culprit: KO2s are heavy. You can put off road tires on a Forrester, but that's not what I'm talking about. IMO JLR is restricting tire choice by limiting 18" rims to the 2.0L engine. Goodyears with Kevlar may fit rims of 17-21" but it's not all the same: the sidewall should be a choice you get to make, not one made for you by JLR. JLR could put the stronger 3.0L engine in Defender with 18" rims and sell it with KO2s. If they did so, it would be a popular trim for sure. Tire choices go up when you go from a 19" rim to an 18" rim. It's not just rim size. The Defender has to have room in the wheel arch for big, heavy tires. The 2.0L is a good engine, but it's apparently not up to the KO2 entry fee. (By way of comparison, the GX has increased torque of 479 vs Defender at 295 - that 60% more than the 2.0L on Defender, and it gives GX owners more choices in the aftermarket because the engine is more capable.) It's clear Defender doesn't offer as many tire/rim choices as Wrangler, Bronco and the new GX will. Why? Why is JLR restricting after market tire choices for folks that just plunked down $80k? No other manufacturer in the off road market does that. Maybe it's because JLR has decided you don't need KO2s for Whole Foods? And that's the point. If you want to be in the off road SUV market, you have to spec out an SUV you can take off road. Lexus concedes the point. Although the GX may not come with KO2s, if you buy the Overtrail you'll be able to buy KO2s later on. Why would Lexus market an off road SUV that can't roll one of the most broadly accepted off road tire choices out there? Right? So Lexus is game on, same as the others. It's only JLR out there telling the buyer: "You don't really need a big sidewall. There's no difference. Buy these lighter, less durable, perhaps even thinner tires with low profiles instead!" Nope, not going to happen. I'm not saying JLR needs to make Defender super off road oriented. But at the same time, if JLR doesn't let the buyer configure Defender with one of the leading off road tire choices out there, what exactly is JLR saying? Right, Defender is for the shopping malls, and you don't need KO2s for that. Personally, I think JLR will get more competitive eventually. The 18" steel wheel is awesome, and the 3.0L engine is the winner compared to the 2.0L engine. Like chocolate and peanut butter, they will eventually put the two together.I think JLR keeping Defender at the mall has given Lexus an opening for buyers that wanted their SUV to do something more than mall shopping. IMO, there's no way a GX Overtrail is going to lose in a head to head off road match with Defender as it's currently configured. For Defender to compete (and it could), it will need a trim fitted with more durable treads. The GX has the treads + alot of the off road tech from the older 200 LC; it's likely to be an absolute beast on bad terrain in a way that folks familiar with old GX are going to be like WTF it's like a LC! Yep, because it's getting alot of the LC tech, plus increased torque. Defender has lots of tech too, just as much if not more as GX. But didn't you stop to wonder what all that Defender tech is reliant upon? Right, the rubber beneath it. And that's the point. Defender trims today are about compromise, and I'm interested in Defender with a 3.0L engine, 18" steel wheels, and KO2s. If JLR were not so focused on 0-60 acceleration speeds, it may have allowed them to configure the 3.0L engine for increased torque but not as much acceleration, and allowing smaller calipers, and then the 18" rims. But a myopic drive to get "fast" Defenders produced required engines built for acceleration, big calipers to control that acceleration, and has lost some buyers not interested at all in the 0-60 number. I'm sure I'm a minority of buyers, but the GX Overtrail is really tuned to attract folks like me. And for $80k buyers, why not?
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#29
02-03-2024, 09:33 AM
Mudding
I’m sure the GX over trail will be great. Probably more reliable, probably less good off road and less comfortable on road. My favorite two vehicles ever are the 80s series Land Cruiser/Lexus and the Discovery 2. Feels like these two brands are getting back to what first made me fall in love with cars/trucks as a kid in the late 90s.
#30
02-03-2024, 01:30 PM
Three Wheeling
I like everything about the Land cruiser variant better than the Lexus - except the towing capacity. I’m at 80k miles in my defender and don’t plan on making any changes before the 150+ mark. I am hopeful that when that comes, there will be some offering that includes a plug in hybrid in the US.
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paule (02-03-2024)