Hi everyone,

I am looking to buy new Defender (T90 or T110).
I want to use it as my daily vehicle (mainly in Urban areas) and as family car for hikes in Lakes (England).

First I have shortlisted few vehicles: Defender and Wrangler.

After a bit of research I think I will be going with Defender, but I still like Wrangler a lot.

What trims, engine you would recommend? What would be my best option with reliability in mind.
also I am not sure if I should opt-in for air suspension.

I am kind of person- less is better. Don’t like over engineering keep in mind - I am based in England so I think in UK market we have slightly different trims, engines. I personally do like diesel engines more- they are cheaper to run (on average I am doing around 20k miles annually)

 

I recently replaced my 2021 Wrangler Rubicon 4XE with a Defender 90. I have had 3 Wranglers in the past and find them to be not much of a contender with the Defender in many ways. Quality was an issue for me with the Jeep Wranglers. As far as comfort, fit and finish as well as overall feel...your decision to roll with the Defender is a solid one (IMHO).

I prefer a more powerful drive train so I went with the P400 engine. I like the three levels that the air suspension offers. I like the two door primarily as a run around town vehicle. We a a Sport when a larger ride is needed. Not sure the two door is ideal for a family although there is a good amount of room in the rear seats. The two door size also is great on the trails (lots of 4 wheel trails here in Colorado).

Good luck on your path in finding your Defender.

 

I look at it this way in choosing a defender. The defender is 90% better than the Wrangler on road and about 95% as capable as a wrangler off-road. Conversely, the wrangler is awful on road because it compromises too much for its off-road capability.

The defender is more refined inside and out objectively considerably more comfortable.

I have the dynamic 110 with the P400.

 

I think is cheaper than in UK (not sure why). Looks like Defender is the way to go

 

The Wrangler has always been plagued with quality issues. Chrysler makes ****ty cars, and after the mergers with Fiat and now the bloody French, the quality still sucks. It also sucks to drive on road. Overly stiff suspension and recirculating ball steering make it a handful to live with, although many people here in the US put up with it because they like the "Jeep lifestyle." Honestly makes me throw up in my mouth every time I see a Wrangler with 50 rubber ducks on the dash. The Defender is a luxury vehicle with the ride quality of a luxury vehicle. It is on the stiffer side as all JLR products are, but it is excellent. The coil springs aren't bad, but if it were me, I'd ALWAYS get the air suspension. You get a better ride, height adjustment and better articulation. Plus, air suspension comes with adaptive dampers that automatically adjust to road conditions. The air suspension offers a more compliant ride and noticeably increased off-road capability. I previously had an LR4 (Discovery 4) for ten years and that never had an issue with the air suspension, nor did my Discovery 5. If you have a family, I'd get the 110. The 90 is awesome, but the cargo space is nonexistent with the seats up. The 110 has a good amount of cargo space and room to put your family. As for engines, I have the P300 I4 and it is more than adequate. I was in the UK for the Goodwood Festival of Speed back in July and had the chance to drive a D300 Defender and I wish we got the diesel here in the US. So much torque, plenty of power and it was ultra smooth and refined for a diesel. Since this is a US-based forum, you won't find many people here with experience with the diesel engines. You also might want to consider the P400e PHEV, in case you get any tax credits or subsidies for buying a PHEV. That uses the same P300 I4 as in my car, but with a 19.2kWh battery giving you probably 25 miles or so of EV range, and a combined output of 404 horsepower. Definitely worth a consideration, especially with how expensive fuel is in the UK.

 

Diesel will throw particulate filter errors, EGR errors and more...

 

Not on the 3.0 Ingenium. They're very good. l've done 16,000 miles of mainly local journeys in my D250 and never had any issue at all with the engine.

l researched it before buying one. The 2.0 lngenium had many issues. But the 3.0 was designed around the EGR system and it works very well.

l've not read of anyone with EGR or other similar issues (such as oil dilution) with the 3.0

 

I had a long term loaner Wrangler and drove that about a month or so. It was really fun, and wouldn't say anything negative. But for me, it was not practical as a dependable daily driver with family. This is where I don't get the direct comparison -as the Wrangler seems to fill a different role. Driving it on narrow streets with bikers (no bike lanes) required a bit of focus. I found the Wrangler would wander a bit at speed, and when slow, it was totally fine. Although fun & capable, it's just not a primary SUV like a 110 Defender. I went with the P400 engine. I don't want, value, or care about top speed, so all and every V8 is out. (why does JLR think I want to buy a 2 ton block shaped Defender, and then drive it like a Ferrari? Offering 3 V8s in their only off road family SUV model says they are probably as brand confused on what Defender should be as the consumer. It's not a "house of brands" if you keep putting the RR Sport engine in the family adventure SUV, but we'll overlook that and just order a practical configuration I think the P300 - reliable as it likely is, not knocking it - would get worked a bit too much, given I do often drive with lots of stuff in the car or in tow. Good luck with your new Defender!

 

You really cannot compare the on-road manners of a Wrangler with the new Defender. I find the Wrangler to be extremely noisy and uncomfortable on long highway drives, whereas the Defender is much more refined, quieter, and with superb road manners.

 

Former JKU Recon driver here, just put an order in for D110.

You nailed your choice when you said "daily urban driver". Wrangler is not a car, it's a Jeep. When I was doing my homework for it back in 2017 (it was to be the first offroad 4 wheeled vehicle after a lifetime of mountain biking), I heard that phrase, chuckled, and thought to myself - "showoffs". Well, not really. It doesn't drive like a car, it doesn't feel like a car. I was looking specifically for a capable offroad vehicle and said to myself "I will suffer all the imperfections it has" (after looking inside), and oh my, suffer the imperfections I did. Mind you, this is about the JK generation, not JL, so things may have improved there, but let me list the reasons I left the Rubicon behind and landed here, in order of recollection.

#0 (yes, zero). It was totaled because Stellantis didn't have spare parts, and insurance didn't want to wait. Sure, they paid the market value and then some, but I'm also sure they recouped the loss in jacked up premiums since. Stellantis is not doing better since then, it's doing worse.

Then,

1. The engine is anemic at best on blacktop. It is more than adequate offroad with 1:73 ratio, but I gave up on an idea of passing anyone on a highway.
2. A/C is inadequate. Front seats occupants may be fine, but rear seats - not so much. I ended up driving with windows open even with 110F+ ambient temperature - crosswind felt better than the stuffed A/C. I could tolerate it, but my passengers hated it with passion.
3. Road noise. It is intolerable at highway speeds even with the hardtop (don't even think of the softtop if you're an urban driver, pick your order: [comfort, theft protection]). You can't really have an intelligible conversation while driving in a Jeep on a highway.
4. The design is not that good. Comparing it to other cars I have that some people would call overpriced but I have had them for 11, 19, and 21 years respectively - nowhere close. Stupid things happen, like the blend door actuator failing every season, or the brake wear indicator breaking while the cylinder is stuck, so the first sign of failure is the grinding noise from one of your wheels.
5. Maintenance and upgrade culture is... let me put it this way, it rubs me the wrong way. Whereas in other places I measure torque in Nm or Lb-ft, Jeepers mostly measure it, I kid you not, "more than a fart, less than a poop" (google this phrase, you'll find the source). I bought an upgrade, the bolt snapped as I was installing it, I contacted the manufacturer, and they said "oh, sorry, we wrote lb-ft where we should have written Nm". Thankfully, it was not a structural part. I ended up discarding it altogether.

Having said all that, Wrangler is an outstanding offroad vehicle, it can do things that will make your hair stand on its ends without breaking sweat. But again, it seems that it's not how you plan to use it - as an overlander, Defender beats Wrangler hands down just about everywhere.

Now, *which* Defender... Here, P300 vs P400.

Hope this helps.

PS, a day later:

"Wandering" is the name of the game for live axle suspensions. Early on, I was given an advice - "don't try to drive it as you drive a car, just let it go where it wants and then correct when it goes too far". That worked; the usual way of steering it was absolutely nerve-wracking and requiring constant attention. In the end, it wasn't that bad at all. Steering, that is, the engine is still inadequate.

As for the stiff suspension - it depends on what you compare it to. Other cars I drive (sedans and coupes) are so much stiffer than JK, it was like a limousine in comparison. I especially liked going over the speed bumps just for the hell of it, but one time ran over a curb by accident, and the net result was "what was that?" and that's all. No drama. Gotta say, though, Defender beats Jeep here; when I was test driving a 110S with air suspension on a rough road I steered at rocks just to see how it felt like - and it drove over them like they didn't exist.