Lastly, this might be controversial with you petrol loving folks- but honestly the P300 is the better Defender. It's lighter, handles better, has a pleasant ride quality, allows for the 18" wheels and has less to go wrong overall. When we donate D110's for work use they're either equipped with P300's or Diesel variants.



Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure who is the "Insider" participating on this thread, but if he/she is such in reality it is very nice to have her/him participate.

I greatly enjoy driving my P300 D110 for all the reasons noted. I am even using it for towing off-road with some 7000 lbs load now, instead of my LR4s, because I have a project running which benefits from the superior 4WD system vs. the LR4.

IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HEAR A MILEAGE INTERVAL RECOMMENDATION FOR TRANSMISSION AND DIFFERENTIAL FLUID CHANGES WHEN USING THE DEFENDER PREDOMINATELY AS A TOW VEHICLE.

I believe the P400 is needed when driving some of the U.S.'s high-speed, long-distant, crowded interstates. Rapid acceleration is a safety feature there. Fortunately, that is not my normal environment, so the P300 works well enough for me.

I won't comment on the Diesel question except to say the Corn lobby is very strong and their ethanol is a solid money producer for farmers. I expect ethanol Diesel fuel is not existent?

Enjoy !

 

Some of these sound more like statements than questions haha However, I'll do my best to answer/address them in order.

-You may like Diesel and feel passionately that Americans are for it, but American luxury consumers on the whole are not interested. The mess with VW and Audi didn't help the situation, but quite honestly the folks that buy Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche, etc in general don't want to deal with Diesel. We spent millions promoting it in the US and ensuring our dealers bought a full line of Diesel vehicles, but the result were cars that sat endlessly on the lot collecting dust and lots of costly incentive spending. While people might cite various financial, political or social reasons why it isn't successful that's of no concern to us. We have a presence in over 100 countries around the world and there is either demand for a product or there isn't. We haven't the time or resources to try and convince major countries otherwise.

-Your take on EV's and electric power is very much coming from a US point of view. While your government restrictions and purchase behavior may not align with some of our product changes- we are serving the world not the US. These changes are not driven by an internal desire to appeal to a niche audience. They are driven by government regulations in various countries, CO2 taxes, future ICE restrictions, etc. We are a data-driven organization which focuses on the reality of the situation and we plan as much as ten years in advance. We already are in discussions about California legislation that is a decade out.

US luxury consumers are now heavily focused on EV's as a next purchase. We've surveyed thousands and met personally with hundreds in the past year, but most importantly we closely monitor sales and consumer psychographics. Even ardent car enthusiasts are feeling pressure in their social circles and luxury consumers tend to lead the charge (no pun intended) on progressive technology. Tesla has the number 1 selling luxury vehicle in the US with the Model Y and that's no surprise. We have to go this direction-there is no other choice or we collapse globally.

-In regard to 18 inch wheels- yes we understand there is a market for them. However, it's a big ask to make the investment to redesign the rear brake system for the incremental return on sales right now in a single market. We have a global vehicle shortage and we sell every car we make at the moment. Also, most P400 owners opt for 20" and 22" wheels. Despite what car enthusiasts on these online forums say- the people who spend the money often opt for big wheels. We have people asking for 23" wheels right now believe it or not. Besides, the hardcore enthusiasts seem to change out their wheels for aftermarket and do caliper conversions (and various other modifications) so product leadership would ask- is this truly driving incremental sales? That said, we are looking at revised wheel and tire options for the future and we haven't closed the door.

-A factory in the US would not fix the supply problems. We do not source chips or most parts from the US and that wouldn't change much with a US factory. Arguably it would make things worse waiting for massive shipments of components from Europe and Asia versus our current UK/Slovakia structure. If there are no supply chain issues though it does offer the distinct advantage of getting assembled cars to the consumer faster. So yes, a US factory is a fine idea for shortening delivery time. However, US labour costs are quite high as well as land and construction costs. Additionally, some of our RR and RRS owners like knowing their vehicle was assembled in England (though in truth it's a minority). It's a thought for the future- but not right now.

Lastly, there should be no concerns over JLR leadership and there is no internal crisis. Many key people have been here a long time and are some of the most brilliant individuals I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. JLR absorbs many great minds from across the UK, Europe and Asia and we have strategic leaders who map things out years in advance with multiple contingency plans. Our new CEO Thierry from Michelin is calm, collected and extremely intelligent and he has drawn a superb road map for the organization. His focus on quality and customer service is second to none and many of you will see some big changes over the next 1-3 years.

Thank you for your orders (wow 3!) and interest- they are greatly appreciated. Also know that we hear your concerns and we do genuinely care. Please trust that we have a plan for the future and that we're doing the best that we can while trying to keep our longtime supporters happy.

Hope this helps!

 

Thank you for your thoughts on this. But the underlying question is, why did you go to the trouble to differentiate the rear brakes between P300 and P400 in the first place, given that both trucks weigh very nearly the same, both are speed limited by tires (so their top speeds are the same) and both will tow the same amount. It seems like the initial decision was the complicated one that caused JLR more trouble, caused JLR dealers more trouble to stock extra parts, and causes some customers waaaaaay more trouble and expense to swap out calipers. I’m having trouble seeing who the “winner” is with that decision. If 18s were available on the P400 that would in no way prevent JLR from offering 20s and 22s additionally, but the people who want 18s would also be served, the dealers and JLR warehouses would stock one rear caliper, the assembly plant would have one less component to stock, etc.

Any thoughts on this?

Cheers!

 

Not to mention if we owners can, in theory, just grind off some caliper and make an 18" fit, why couldn't that caliper just come that way from the factory...

 

@The Insider - As always, great insight.
I would like to express some of my 2 cents opinions, while respecting yours.
1- "US luxury consumers are now heavily focused on EV's as a next purchase" - is that your market segment you are targeting ? Ok then .... most of regular folks like me, and many others, are not really interested about "toasters" on wheels. Yeah, they are heavily pushed by the elites, and Hollywood celebs, but they are not the fix. My perception is that you are not in US. But if you get here, go on the interstates, just try to find Tesla on the interstates or other full EV. Maybe in Europe, but not here.
America is a unique market. Demographics changes fast. Faster than Europe. Don't believe that luxury consumers are USA. They're not. Also, would I spend 35-45% of the new EV price to change the battery in 7-8 years ? No way, that is economically unfeasible. Many customers that had EVs are now going back to ICE - link
2- A factory in the US - yes labor costs are probably higher, than SK, I get that. But there are so many other factories here from other manufacturers that make a profit. Subaru, Mercedes, Toyota... and many others to name a few. Chips - do you know that in TX they are now starting the largest chip factory in the world ? Near Dallas ? But, I get it, it is your strategy.
3 - Diesel sitting on the lot, not selling ? Seriously ...? Let me tell you my story from 2017. I tried to get a LR Diesel which I could afford. It was a Velar. Nice and all, model was a D180. I leased it because I did not know much about that engine. In 2017 there was no shortage and crisis. In the entire country there were only 8 ( eight ) vehicles in August. I could barely get my hands on the last one, and it had to be shipped 5 states away, at full MSRP. They sell well ( unless the dealer prices them stupidly and then all bets are off ). The only reason which made me get off that vehicle was the new Defender, and some very high recommendations from my former JLR mechanic. I sold the diesel VELAR to CarMax at MSRP price and they added 10 k more. It sold the 2nd day. PM if you want the details, I am not making this up.
So, yeah, diesel sell if it is priced decent.
The Insider - please do not take some of these things personally, nothing with you, in fact you are a gem ! honest. I am aiming at JLR ears here. But then again, all these are personal opinions.
Thank you again.

P.S. yes, 3 on order (allocation for now, pending order #) - family is getting an upgrade from what we had before.

 

@ The Insider...... Keep up the great work. I LOVE my Defender 90 P400 XDynamic SE.

 

I'll do my best to answer this. There are many factors that impact brake design and how to approach it. Every vehicle is unique and poses unique challenges. Comparisons between two different manufacturers are usually not a good idea because we engineer to different tolerances, targets and standards.

The P400 powertrain generates significantly more torque than the P300. A lot more from an engineering standpoint. Well over 550nm/406ftlbs compared to 400nm/296 ft lbs in the P300. We utilize a torque vectoring/distribution system that heavily relies on the braking system. The Rubicon, G-Class, Grenadier, etc use manual locking differentials whereas we use open differentials on standard models and active lockers on the rear as an option.

When you're powering up a steep dirt road filled with ruts, rocks, etc (or other scenarios where there is heavy rear brake intervention to mimic the effect of a locking differential) you generate a lot of brake heat. Additionally, if you are driving aggressively on gravel roads or low traction situations making turns there is a fair amount of brake intervention. This is something everyone forgets.

That's one of the reasons, but there are about seven in total why the P400 brakes are larger:

1) They need to handle additional heat (and dissipate it sufficiently) on the P400 powertrain when off-roading or during aggressive driving. Large calipers do a better job here.

2) Ensure that the braking system can overcome an engine under power in an emergency situation.

3) Handle repeated aggressive acceleration and braking scenarios that P400 drives place on their car, as well as high speed scenarios. Quicker acceleration translates to reduced time between braking events.

4) Address the additional 140 kg/308 pounds of weight.

5) Anticipate that drivers towing at the maximum weight are more likely to be utilizing the P400 powertrain.

6) Gerry McGovern's design (styling) team likes the idea that P300 and P400 cars are differentiated and prefers the aesthetic of larger wheels on the P400 given the elevated price point. In other words, his department wasn't pressing other departments for an 18' wheel. **Edit: To be clear here, Gerry didn't ask for 19" wheels- he simply wasn't going to be one of the people speaking up about the lack of 18" wheels on the P400. **

7) Engineers feel that there are few scenarios where a 19 inch wheel cannot handle the situation. The 19" Duratrac tyre is light for its size and grip and we have traveled across continents with it. However, if you are a hardcore off-roader or using the vehicle in remote locations or for commercial purposes you will probably prefer the P300 anyway.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that safety is an incredibly high priority at Land Rover and we tend to over-engineer and make things quite a bit stronger than required. There's a reason these vehicles are so heavy. If you look at our safety ratings they are all superb. The brake systems are built to withstand worst case scenarios and severe abuse under adverse conditions. We do not build them to be "good enough" to get the job done.

Hope this helps answer the question.

 

Just looked, only 30 new Defender 90's available in the whole country. Waiting for '23's I guess.

 

The Insider:

I am very happy to read your answer.

You answered the question well, and your answers are not a surprise to me, as once I understood the different versions of ZF 8 speed transmissions and their different torque ratings being used on the P300 and P400 vehicles -- combined with my past experience with the rear wheel brake wear rates off-road in my Evoque and LR4 (in the service of differential braking acting as the equivalent of a differential).

My only disappointment in your answer is the continual use and defense by JLR of using 19" wheels on your most capable off-road vehicles. Fundamentally, I would expect that whenever you build a LO speed transfer case into a vehicle you would disallow the ordering of 19" wheels.

I feel it is unfair to people who come to your brand for its deep history of off-road capability to not do so. The off-road tire availability situation is horrendous at 19" (as you know) and it is felt as a bit of a betrayal for sincere newbies to your most capable vehicles to not be actively helped by JLR to purchase a more suitable wheel size. This happenend with me on my first LR4, a 2011 model, and I am still sore about it (not a grudge, just a memory of what I think is a continuing miss in the company's logic). You earned back my deep interest in JLR with my 2016 Evoque off-road (even without LO range).

Those of us with off-road experience have found the Duratrac wanting ... although I do appreciate the effort to do at least something.

Finally, please do share with whomever at JLR would most personally benefit to hear my extreme and sincere thanks for the off-road capability of the new Defender and TR2. You did exactly as I hoped you would in that department.

Enjoy !

 

Great info as always @insider

Seems like the brake swap (using OEM JLR discovery calipers I believe. I have the part number somewhere on here) that many do has been given the rubber stamp of safety approval by JLR Australia and by the powers at be that govern safety on vehicles there. The caliper swap and use of 18" Tuffant alloys meets or exceeds the required standards for both bodies, one commercial and one governmental.

This would appear that the engineering and design of the new calipers for the p400 could have been avoided with a better result and reduced costs. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

Trimming them by 1/4" or so also does the job but is not similarly endorsed.

FWIW, the 20" alloy on my p400 is the only feature of he vehicle that makes me sigh and cringe a little. I needed a 7-seater so the p400 was our only option. 19" tire choices are too few so I'm left with the 20"s