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We are considering an Airstream to tow behind the Defender 110 P400. Has anybody had success with the 25-27' models, at first glance these seem too heavy even for the Defender? Here's what my research tells me so far.
The clear issue here is the hitch weight limit on the Defender is below the usual 10-15% of towing capacity. A Weight Distribution hitch could move 33% of the hitch weight back towards the trailer axle, that would be great BUT we have Air Suspension and so a WD system is not advised by JLR. Has anybody used a WD hitch successfully in reality? Which ones have worked for you? Some folks have offered tips to replace standard hitch area mounted Lead Acid Batteries (41 lbs) with Lithium (26 lbs), others have suggested changing out steel LP tanks (32 lbs) with Aluminum (21 lbs) and other such savings - two each of these gets us 52 lbs in savings but I still feel like we are scrabbling.
Ideally I'd like to be 5-10% shy of the limits. Has somebody run their rig comfortably right at the limits? Assuming an Airstream, am I really restricted to 23' or below?
Too heavy for a Defender. You are not going to get a 25'+ Airstream into the realm of being towed by a Defender by switching to lighter batteries or aluminum propane tanks. You need a full-size pickup to tow one of those.
I’ll be using my Defender to tow an Oliver legacy elite 2. It’s roughly equivalent in size to a 23” airstream flying cloud. Dry weight 5000lbs gvwr 7000lbs (but i pack very light, aiming at no more than 6k).
i find online rv communities have an overwhelmingly critical view of towing and consider anything less than a dually turbo diesel super duty criminally dangerous tow vehicles.
Last edited by Mcdooogs; Oct 23, 2022 at 07:38 PM.
We tow a 25 GT FBT quite comfortably with our 110 P400. The limiting factor is tongue weight which we addressed by adding a structural support to the hitch. There is quite a bit of misinformation about tongue weights, WD hitches and unibody construction, payload limitations, etc. We use an Eaz-Lift WD with 1000lb torsion bars. I suggest you think about the style of camping you plan to do. If you carry heavy - bbq grills, fire pits, outdoor carpets and furniture, large family & big dogs, lots of recreation gear and kitchen appliances, then the Defender may not be the best vehicle. We travel light and have empty storage cabinets in the trailer, 200 lbs of available payload in the Defender and 1200 lbs of available payload in the trailer and are right around the spec for tongue weight. How do I know? Because I've been weighed fully loaded at a CAT scale both hitched and unhitched. In fact, we have had to dial back the bias on our brake controller to keep the trailer acting like a parachute. Just came back from a trip in WV and had no problems with the grades. You will have to move your spare to the roof since it can interfere on a tighter turn. We did have a 3rd party install solar and ended up installing lithium batteries in a side compartment leaving the front battery compartment empty. That may have helped with the tongue weight.
POPTOPP, I see what your custom shop did there, that makes sense to me. After crawling around underneath it looks like there is no connection from the towbar frame to the rear subframe except via the Unibody (I might be wrong but didn't see it), that extension bar you have gives a direct connection to the subframe and it looks like you kept the departure angle of the vehicle intact - nice! We will travel light like you, still surprised you got the 25' below 771 lbs at the hitch. Of course in theory you wouldn't need the WDH or extension support but I think at these weights they would give a lot of assurance. Does the air suspension play nice with the setup, no sway and no scary moments, anything you would do different if starting again?
Those Lance trailers are pretty nice especially with the push outs that even support a King bed, but over 23' or so you are still restricted by that hitch weight limit. I'll take a look at alternatives but think the boss (wife) has settled on the Airstream having had one before.
I did not mean to imply I got the tongue weight below 771 lbs. What I meant was with the way I loaded and set up the Airstream I kept the tongue weight near the Airstream spec of 875 lbs. which can be handle by my strengthened hitch. I have tried towing "on the ball" and prefer the feel of the WD hitch. On the ball alone there seems to be a fair amount of porpoising as the air suspension reacts to the road. Regarding setup, I have found it to be a challenge to dial it in. In theory, you measure the tow vehicle's ride height before hitching and then again after hitching and use the torsion bars to restore the same front/back set of the truck. In practice the Defenders active suspension is active - and tries to level out. I've found turning off the truck and leaving a door open minimizes that active feedback, those airbags settle a whole bunch with 800+ lbs on the hitch. So it was a bit of trial and error to get the tension on the WD bars set to where the ride felt right. At the end of the day, the Defender will level itself. As you can see from the pics, both Defender and trailer look pretty well trimmed. I'm a first-timer with trailers so I've no comparisons. But with only 1,000 miles under my belt, most in WV, I haven't had any gut-sucking moments and feel pretty comfortable towing a 25. Now if I could just figure out how to back this rig up, I'd be a happy guy.
I will say if you do end not finding the right fit in a Defender my in-laws went with a Ford F-150 Platinum Hybrid to tow their 25ft Airstream and it's been incredibly successful for them. They can plug the Airstream into the bed's 240v power and put the truck in generator mode which idles automatically for a few minutes every hour to keep the power topped off when boondocking.
What brake controller are you using? I'm shopping for one, I'm not going to tow an airstream looking at something lighter/off road capable and under the hitch weight limit so won't need to reinforce it (hopefully). I was surprised by a lack of an option for accessory for one since it has such a good tow rating.
What brake controller are you using? I'm shopping for one, I'm not going to tow an airstream looking at something lighter/off road capable and under the hitch weight limit so won't need to reinforce it (hopefully). I was surprised by a lack of an option for accessory for one since it has such a good tow rating.
I have the RedArc Tow-Pro Elite and just finished a one week tow our new off-road trailer back from Ohio to Colorado (on-road only due to time constraints). It performed perfect and I was thrilled. Installation looks stock, neatly installed in the blank below the emergency brake controller left of steering in North American models, as pictured in other posts here in the forum. I admit I would have preferred a more central location (have seen images here in the forum of that) but that wasn't in the cards due to time / travel constraints.
It's a massive improvement from the legacy brake controllers I was familiar with from what my dad used on our travel trailer - and what I used on the construction trailer we had for that business - which was about 40 years ago (damn I'm old).
The RedArc has both an on-road (proportional) and off-road mode (user controlled) modes which was a very appealing aspect. Came highly recommended from numerous folks I spoke with at Overland Expo events, friends and colleges. Thus far it's been great and I feel confident in the decision to go with it.
P400 and Airstream towing
