The fact that now there is no sunroof delete option is very unfortunate. I believe the only model without is the commercial model in the uk. I would suggest to let your local dealers know that something like a no cost sunroof delete option should give jlr the money they want and still let you chose to not have one. Similar to the steel wheels are now. It costs a couple hundred bucks more for the steel wheels locks, but no cost savings for what used to be the base model wheel. It is all about demand.

 

As I said before, kind of indifferent on the roof. Being bald, opening the roof is a bad idea and hats are not really the solution. Glass can be a structural member, but the opening portion defiantly is not. Most people buying this car really only engage in off-mall driving. So fruffy options like the glass roof and red calipers are very important. "What, you want steel wheels?" Strange request for a so called off road car, besides; how could you see the red calipers? "That would look stupid in the mall parking lot." The glass roof, moon roof or whatever you want to call it is common on so many crossovers it simply must be there if they want to sell them. My only big plus for the glass roof is being able to open it to let out the hot air the black glass produces. Oh, wait, that is merely correcting a self induced defect. Although, if you have a roof rack installed, it acts much like the pre-metamorphic Defenders having the "Safari Roof." It was a sheet of metal riveted to the stiffness and made an air gap between the two layers, keeping the car cool, ok, cooler. The deluxe model had vents you could open between the layers enhancing the cooling. This is what the glass roof and rack combo offer you, same effect.

Getting worked up about this not being as tough and off-roady as it should be is pretty academic. After this summer's field season I found handling and comfort where high in the field. I am really disgusted with the electrical system and the pathetically small battery and inadequate charging system. I also ran just the Perrelli Scorpions off road all summer which surprisingly worked super well and had no issues, even around sharp volcanic features I have been studying (mainly due to the good off road software). I took my rack off prematurely expecting an early snow season, but it has just started. All in all, I am reconsidering the vehicle as being field worthy in the long run, mainly due to the really poorly thought out electrical system. When Lucas electrical was at its height and in every Land Rover they at least had the foresight to provide a hand crank with every car, for when it had no electricity. I have no idea what I would replace it with, all the new off road vehicles have the same issues; too much tech, too many mall features. If it was reasonably priced and actually effective off road in true field conditions, then I might be able to rent one in Africa. Again, for my upcoming field season in Namibia and South Africa; none to be found for rent. Just crappy Hilux's and Ford Rangers. Just finished looking. Ended up with another POS Hilux. Apparently, in Namibia where Land Rover did their big hoopla marketing films and photo shoots. None exist for rent. Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple belonging to private owners, ok 3 in two years.

Now the only time when a glass roof came in handy. My wife had her friends visiting, we drove down Oak Creek Canyon to Sedona. The glass roof allowed me to conduct the geology lecture on the way down for the passengers.

 

Hi - sounds like you've had some nice trips with your Defender, and sorry to hear of the electronics letting you down. The second battery requirement should be something the after market can solve? I agree the panoramic roof is a bit academic - I just got p.o. I couldn't delete it. I have that now on my current LR, and I want a change with my next. Simple as that and not really about anything heavy duty intellectual. I actually do use my roof rack, and I've dropped stuff on the glass and yes, it's still intact. I don't lie awake at night worrying... but if given a chance to spec a Defender without it, would I? Yep. My other hang up is the steel wheels at 18" are great- absolutely love the option - but why pair that with only the 2.0L engine? What's wrong with offering steel wheels and 18" rims if you wan the 3.0L? I don't care about top speed or acceleration, and if JLR modified that trim configuration be less dynamic, so be it, I'd buy it. If you want a "field" oriented SUV, have you visited a Grenadier dealer? I've seen one at a local dealer, sat in it for a bit, but didn't drive it. As the pictures would suggest, it's crazy solid in a way that no other SUV is made today. The Defender is engineered mainly for paved roads, but of course it's able to withstand off road trips as well; the Grenadier (to me) seemed the opposite - they imagine Grenadier travels mostly where there's just no roads - it's a permanent off road SUV that (lucky for you) can also be driven on the road and still handle well enough. But the off road (vs. on road) priority is opposite to Defender's and it's pretty obvious from just sitting in one (for example, the one I looked at had KO2s - from the factory that's how they are delivered!) That's from the outside - you'd have to check out the electrical side to see if it would be dependable enough. IMO it's a matter of what off road set up (when things go wrong) is more likely to stop the SUV from moving and leave you stranded. For me, the inside was not a Defender in terms of cabin comforts, which as a LR owner I do actually like. The inside was nice; spacious in the front; and featured leather seats. But I was looking for Defender's room for stuff (iphones, water bottles, coffee mugs, etc.). Leather seats are fine, but I'm ok with fake leather - it's durability that is key and Defender seats seem durable. The Grenadier has way more room than a Wrangler/Bronco for passengers, but IMO it's not a Defender in terms of offering cabin comforts. For me, there was one glaring issue: the gear shifter in Defender is ingeniously out of the way. On the Grenadier, the rotary controller for the on-board computer is right in the coffee cup landing zone, along with the gear shifter as well. It's not bad, but is that the best spot for a rotary dial controlling the on-board electronics? To be fair to Grenadier, their market is off road driving for an extended periods of time - given that, the driver just has to be more aware of the SUV's tech and actively safeguard it. You can't carelessly put your coffee from Starbucks next to your gear shifter - you have to focus on the terrain. So I get it - it's a totally different ethos than Defenders at Whole Foods 90% of the time, and then for that 10%, sure, then they go off road. I think Grenadier is built for the inverse of that. Defender has space and the inside layout is probably the best on the market. Hopefully JLR will figure out more dependable electronics - and get 18" rims on a 3.0L engine! (tune down that top speed and migrate the speed demons to the V8 or upcoming EV). Who knows, maybe once the EV is selling, JLR will go back and reconfigure the 3.0L engine for more torque and lessen the acceleration and stop speed - that may then allow the 18" steelies! No matter how awesome the off road tech is (and with JLR it's great), all that tech is ultimately dependent upon the tires. $5k of sophisticated off road tech upgrades on air suspension can be defeated by a sharp rock, broken glass, or a small nail - an ignominious defeat of a $100k off road SUV. The 18" rim gives the owner tire choices - it's about choices, not "better." If tire choice is not for you, go for the 19" or 22" rim. But if you want tire choices (for durability), you can't do that as easily on 19" rims and that's the issue. If you want to look at KO2s and similar, you are better prepared if you have 17" or 18" rims.

 

Pretty much everything you're saying is correct. I have found the air suspension to not be susceptible to external damage and I have been running it one vehicle or another since 1997. I do go out in the field, a lot, a whole lot. I have always felt that steelies are the best option for any off road situation, especially since, if dented, you can field straighten them. Alloy wheels just break off chunks and you toss them, after you change them out. My last vehicle went through 3 rims, $hit happens.

Yes I do think the electrical system is total poo. Then you must consider that it was most likely designed with a stripped down P300 in mind. Then they loaded up all this tech onto it and it is not up to snuff. Yes second batteries are an option, and yes I have done that, but I am also on my third battery under warranty. My wife's Evoque on its second in 1 year! The system kills them as it does not have a big enough alternator and the battery supplied is pathetic. Really, the car is 10-15 laptops booting up all the time, starting and stopping at intersections and in traffic, heated everything, electric supercharger and so on. I should not have had to put a second battery and frankly there is not a great place for one in the D90. I never had a second battery in any of my previous Defenders or Series vehicles. Second gas tanks, but no extra battery. Besides, what, to power the anemic heater fan? I had hoped not to have to step back into the past and really, really overpay for something like the Grenadier. I was really hoping to not have another noisy, leaky, slow, smelly car. I defiantly will not be finding them overseas as well. Unless they build a lot more malls in Namibia.

I am really deaf enough from high performance jet aircraft most of my young adulthood and through my 30's. I have to wear noise cancelling headphones in my present aircraft and I actually tried them in the Defender, worked well; looked like a dork. I hope new tech can make my field work more comfortable. The Range Rovers worked well, but the new one got completely mallified, with a totally useless tailgate (surely a grocery getter). As for dropping stuff on the glass roof. I have a bunch of 1.5" closed cell foam, when I say bunch, think mountain of the stuff. Used it to pack the airplane when I brought it back from India in a couple of shipping containers. I place a sheet over the roof when I do anything over it. Just in case it is not all it can be.

Just to give you an idea, some of the boxes we made for part of the aircraft, there was more, floats and all the other big bits and pieces. So yeah a mountain of foam. India, never going back to do a project there, unless the payments are huge, need to cover all the bribes you have to make. Most corrupt country I have ever worked in, eclipsed all of Africa and SE Asia. I kind of cringe thinking Tata owns JLR.

 

Ditto on battery, won't last long.

 

Think about what you're actually going to do with your Defender vs what you "could" do with your Defender when making the sunroof decision.

We got our 23 P300 110 in October to replace our 21 P300 100 (58k miles, no issues). We wanted a sunroof on the 21 but didn't get it because we planned on getting a roof rack for our surfboards for beach trips and planned on doing some serious off-roading and packing gear on the rack which would block the sunroof. Well, we did some over-landing and car camping in Texas, drove out to Joshua Tree and the Grand Canyon, did some camping in other places, took a lot of beach trips, hauled furniture and stuff for home improvements, did some light towing, but didn't really use the roof rack. Our surfboards are under 8 ft, so we just fold down the middle seat, slide them in, and still have four seats. We had always had a sunroof and really missed the it for daily driving. So far, the 23's pano-roof has been fantastic. It lets in soooo much light and makes the car feel open. Sit in the back seat, look up, and be amazed. Tilt it up and get fresh air with a lot less wind noise then you'd get from open windows, and if you drive with just the back windows cracked (we do it all the time), with the sunroof cracked open you don't get the wind buffering in the cabin. The only thing I wish this car had that it doesn't is a ClearSight mirror, sometimes the rear window is blocked, I ignore the warnings and just use the rear camera.

 

I hear you - you love your panoramic roof. Me, I've been there and done that. My existing LR has probably half of the roof in glass, and some of that opens fully (it's not fixed). I'll admit, it's nice to open the sliding top glass open for air. But sometimes you just want different, and I'm not selling my exiting LR, so I already have an open roof LR. The solid roof Defenders I saw initially when it came out - to me - looked awesome. JLR still sells solid roof Defenders - pretty much everywhere except the US. I think this has to do with production limitations, and eventually I will be able to order a Defender as I'd want.

 

Defender's roof is shifted more towards rear passengers, what's the point for driver?

 

I'm testing out a 110 Defender with the 6 cylinder and 20" rims now, and will do so as a "loaner" for the next few days. Having driven it a bit, I am holding to my initial suspicion and a primary complaint: A glass top sucks - it lets in heat. I tried driving with the glass open the foot or so it opens - big deal. Open a window in the car - same outcome. If you roll back the blind fully, the sun reflects down on you while driving - it's almost as much fun as driving into the sun at 5 pm. A full panoramic roof is a bad idea made worse when you actually use it as intended. If it were a good feature, wouldn't it roll backwards? In other words, keep the blind in place for the front driver, and open the blind for the back passenger? That would let in light, and not distract the driver. Ah, but the panoramic window just sucks in total. It's a wasted afterthought of a feature. My driving with it also confirms for me that the panoramic roof is only there to help JLR meet demand. JLR likely knows many don't want it, but they don't have capacity to custom the builds. So to get the "good" features, you have to take the terrible features too. This is JLR selling from a position of strength, but it's not at all endearing to the brand's image. I know production was limited so JLR had to stop letting US buyers configure Defender without the glass top, but now driven with it a bit, yea, for me, it sucks. I was told the 2025 builds will be starting soon, and maybe for 2025, JLR will again allow US markets to delete the glass top? I know folks in the UK and Australia don't have to deal with the bad feature, and so I'm a bit peeved we have to have it in the US. Hope 2025 will allow deleting bad features....

 

The glass top doesn’t suck, you just don’t like it. I have had a vehicle without a glass roof and would not consider a vehicle that doesn’t have one again. I love my Defender and wouldn’t trade it for anything, but no glass roof = I wouldn’t consider it. Doesn’t mean roofs without glass suck, just means I don’t like them.