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What is the Single, Simple Change You'd Like to See on Defender?

Old Jun 12, 2022 | 10:15 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by MattF
Quality is the cure for volume
As it relates to "volume hides a lot of evils / volume cures all evils", this is an old salty business addage.

You can run a big retail store and volume allows you to hide a hell of a lot of poor management and bad decisions.

Small retail businesses with low volume must have consistent discipline. Mistakes in running a low volume business can quickly snowball and become insurmountable.

It's just easier to manage a p&l at scale.
 
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Old Jun 12, 2022 | 10:46 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker
Yes, yes they do. But Toyota used to sell one vehicle in the US for every 200 General Motors sold. Why do you think that has flip-flopped? I have lived through their ascendancy, and at no point did it involve having to charge more than European brands in order to deliver the type of quality the Europeans were delivering. In fact just the opposite. In other words: Toyota today enjoys a quantity advantage specifically because they delivered higher reliability vehicles back when they had low volumes, without charging the type of prices you infer are necessary for high reliability.

Full disclosure: out of 43 cars I’ve purchased over the years, only one has been a Toyota, a 1977 Celica GT liftback I had in college that was pretty much a tired old POS at 100,000 miles.
A lot of c-suites fall into the trap of "look how much better we are than x competitor". They judge themselves against the ineptitude of others rather than setting a high internal standard.

Ford was probably looking at GM back then saying "we're not as bad as GM". GM no doubt thought the same of Ford. They both sucked, everyone knew it, and they were comfortable in that moment.

Toyota kaizen never fell into that trap. They continued to push for better regardless of what others were doing and it worked. They built basic simple cars that just ran and ran.

I remember buying an Integra in the 90's and the big new feature for that model year was a new version of variable valve timing. Not multiple new safety features, integrations with other rapidly evolving tech, or extremely challenging emissions requirements.

I'm not so sure that business landscape is the same today. Consumers expect more and cars are far more complex and expensive to develop.

I can imagine that developing an all-EV lineup for Europe by 2035 is going to be a lot easier for Toyota to absorb lol than it will be for JLR. Ford is practically begging the EU to ban ICE vehicles even faster. Why?
 
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Old Jun 13, 2022 | 01:41 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by GrouseK9
#1. Deliver the features advertised. This, imo, is more important than any 10 new features.
2. Allow 18" wheels on any Defender. Charge extra for it and everyone will be happy. Yeah, you can say you're not happy to pay for it, but I bet if you did the caliper swap or grind, you'd have paid vs. doing that!
3. Windshield upgrade. I'll pay more for something more robust! It doesn't need to stop a steel ball thrown at a product release media event, but I'd pay for stronger windows before all the other options of window types out there.
4. Sliders. Already installed sliders that don't require all the under carriage felt/cardboard to be removed.
5. Dual gas tanks.
6. Dual batteries already installed. LOTS of folks are trying to mod it this way anyway.
7. A true snorkel option.
Most likely everything you mention.
If I wana add something, I would like add “ More extra leather colour “ specially in V8 .. it’s model which compare with other SUV V8 cars .. Imagine the exterior is completely black and the interior is red .. Perfect
 
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Old Jun 15, 2022 | 02:05 PM
  #84  
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These would be mine after configuring and order what I think is the 23.5 MY:

White Roof on the X-Dynamic SE, X, etc.
18" Steelies on SE and up
Solid color seats on X-Dynamic SE and up ( I refer lighter seats, was unable to config x-dynamic SE without black edges)
Let me build my own 'option' pack. The explorer/adventure/etc packs all had things I definitely didn't want but each had some I'd have sprung for if I could pick/choose. Sure you can do it afterwards, but the packs don't make sense to me. I'm more inclined to slap on options at purchase vs buy them later.
Electric steering wheel adjust on SE (my wife and I are 8" apart in height and it's nice to have memory function on an electric steering wheel). It feels like ~living in the future~ when as you walk up to the car it sets itself for the key you have. not sure if the Defender does that.

Things that don't exist:

Lane Centering for Highway driving. Adaptive cruise is great (albeit pricey for this segment) but I've found this is a huge stress relief on those long haul over the highway trips. I don't want self driving, but it's surprising how less drained you are after 12 hours of driving on highway. It will be the only thing I miss on the car I'm replacing.
Rear Window open/close aka 'California mode' on some vehicles, operate like the windows do, retract into the door. I mean it's just a big door.

This is just my thoughts from test driving, and ordering. I'm sure I'll have more after I finally get to use it.
 
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Old Jun 16, 2022 | 06:36 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by MattF
Fairly confident Lexus has tremendous cutting edge tech - in fact Toyota just won the 24Hours of Le Mans today...
Quality is the cure for volume
Now if Toyota/Lexus could just hire a better design team. Probably the ugliest vehicles on the outside with the highest mechanical quality on the inside.
 
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Old Jun 16, 2022 | 06:54 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by _Allegedly
I remember buying an Integra in the 90's and the big new feature for that model year was a new version of variable valve timing. Not multiple new safety features, integrations with other rapidly evolving tech, or extremely challenging emissions requirements.
I also had a 94 Integra GS-R. The main reason I bought it was the amazing high-reving VTEC engine and the silky smooth shifter and clutch. Had it for 2 years and 60K miles, just oil changes, tires and brakes...not a single issue. Then Audi came out with the A4 in '96 and I've owned all Audi/Land Rover/BMW vehicles until our kids started driving. Then it was time to buy them a reliable Honda.
 
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Old Jun 16, 2022 | 07:01 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by PaulLR
Now if Toyota/Lexus could just hire a better design team. Probably the ugliest vehicles on the outside with the highest mechanical quality on the inside.
They just said they want to minimize the "excessive" use of their controversial spindle grills.

You think, oh, good, let's see where this goes.



And then they come back from the cliff with a car nobody will drive.



 
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Old Jun 17, 2022 | 01:20 PM
  #88  
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Current LR4 owner (for the last 6.5 years) pondering the purchase of a Defender.

The key updates I think the Defender needs. I feel these are "realistic" updates that can be done on a refresh that won't require a wholesale design change. Many of these have been said already.
  • Ability to fit larger tires, regardless of whether 18-inch wheels are available across all models. The wheel size issue is one that can be addressed relatively easy in the aftermarket, but the tire-size issue is one that requires an owner to commit to many more modifications to address. For someone who wants to keep their Defender relatively stock, allowing them to go to 33 inch tires is key. As many have said, 33-inch tires seems to be the minimum to be considered a legitimate contender in the genuine off-road segment. Make it happen. If they do an 18-inch wheel option across all models, even better.
  • Design update to the front. When I first saw the Defender the front end really disappointed me. I felt like they used the aftermarket angry Jeep grille as inspiration and made it just too rounded overall. They had their excuses as to why it had to be rounded the way it is, but I feel that the new Bronco put all those excuses to pasture. I'll admit that it's since grown on me quite a bit, but I think it can be "updated" in the right way to put the vehicle over the top for a lot of people. Make the front end boxier to match the rear. This can be done by merely changing some of the plastic parts in the front.
  • As someone else said, factory-standard recovery points across the board. Skid plates across the board.
  • PHEV. They keep hinting that it's coming, but it still isn't in the NA market. Make it happen and make it simple. A lot of their marketing for it unfortunately makes it seem like Land Rover is treating it as a performance model. No. Just a simple Defender that can run electric for 30 miles, which would cover most peoples' commutes. The Wrangler 4Xe is currently the #1 selling hybrid vehicle in the United States. Land Rover is missing out on this.
Those are what I can think of as a prospective owner from the outside looking in.
 
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Old Jun 20, 2022 | 10:05 AM
  #89  
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As a former LR4 owner, bring back the LR4 door trays with a spot for a large water bottle. In all 4 door trays please. Something like this in our X5:


 
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Old Jun 20, 2022 | 10:19 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by ryanjl
Current LR4 owner (for the last 6.5 years) pondering the purchase of a Defender.

The key updates I think the Defender needs. I feel these are "realistic" updates that can be done on a refresh that won't require a wholesale design change. Many of these have been said already.
  • Ability to fit larger tires, regardless of whether 18-inch wheels are available across all models. The wheel size issue is one that can be addressed relatively easy in the aftermarket, but the tire-size issue is one that requires an owner to commit to many more modifications to address. For someone who wants to keep their Defender relatively stock, allowing them to go to 33 inch tires is key. As many have said, 33-inch tires seems to be the minimum to be considered a legitimate contender in the genuine off-road segment. Make it happen. If they do an 18-inch wheel option across all models, even better.
  • Design update to the front. When I first saw the Defender the front end really disappointed me. I felt like they used the aftermarket angry Jeep grille as inspiration and made it just too rounded overall. They had their excuses as to why it had to be rounded the way it is, but I feel that the new Bronco put all those excuses to pasture. I'll admit that it's since grown on me quite a bit, but I think it can be "updated" in the right way to put the vehicle over the top for a lot of people. Make the front end boxier to match the rear. This can be done by merely changing some of the plastic parts in the front.
  • As someone else said, factory-standard recovery points across the board. Skid plates across the board.
  • PHEV. They keep hinting that it's coming, but it still isn't in the NA market. Make it happen and make it simple. A lot of their marketing for it unfortunately makes it seem like Land Rover is treating it as a performance model. No. Just a simple Defender that can run electric for 30 miles, which would cover most peoples' commutes. The Wrangler 4Xe is currently the #1 selling hybrid vehicle in the United States. Land Rover is missing out on this.
Those are what I can think of as a prospective owner from the outside looking in.
I am not sure if you want to make it more off road worthy the PHEV is the way to go. Less useful weight, less cargo space and a bit awkward cargo bottom, and the charge goes fast after which you end up with the smaller petrol which may or may not be an issue depending from your use case. Plus, I guess it also needs more chips adding to current complications. I think you would be better off getting the D300
 
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