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Old 04-24-2018, 01:12 PM
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Default swap engines in a 1988 defender 110

As I understand that the 2.5 turbo is a wee bit sluggish. what diesel engine would be a good swap into it?

I will be looking for a donor vehicle to remove the engine and transplant it into the 88 defender.

Suggestions and recommendations would be helpful. thanks
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:22 PM
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200 or 300tdi are direct swap in, some obvious ancillary differences

More work but also feasible: Mercedes OM617 or OM617A

For the mercedes engine you can find the 300 series sedan and get the engine out of that, rebuild it and put into your car. It will need adapters.

For the Tdi motors, you will not find a "donor" vehicle. Tdi was not sold in USA and you should instead be looking for motor and ancillaries.

Defendersource has information on the mercedes diesel swap

DefendersNW have 300tdi rebuilt, Turner Engineering has 200 and 300tdi rebuilt, several other reputable places etc.
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:31 PM
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Look into the Cummings R2.8 Conversion Kit.
There are adapter plates, and motor mounts, that make it a drop in replacement.
2.5x the power and torque

People are having great luck with them. The swap can be done in less than a weekend for a novice mechanic. Some are doing it in under 6hrs.
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguardoc504 View Post
Look into the Cummings R2.8 Conversion Kit.
There are adapter plates, and motor mounts, that make it a drop in replacement.
2.5x the power and torque

People are having great luck with them. The swap can be done in less than a weekend for a novice mechanic. Some are doing it in under 6hrs.
Where are you getting a 6 hour swap for a defender?

the 2.8 requires different motor mounts, different trans (in his case he has the LT77, even the later R380 needs stronger shafts), different seatbox, trans tunnel, floors, amongst other things.... this is not at all for a novice yet.

DefendersNW and Uncle Douglas are the only viable projects nearing "drop-in" territory on the defender so far. It's an interesting possibility for sure, but don't go suggesting an expensive solution that hasn't been done by more than a handful of people to someone as a "oh you'll bang it out in 6 hours or a weekend".

Cummins in a defender - Page 15 - Defender Source

https://nas-row.com/showthread.php?t=573&page=42

Last edited by DavC; 04-24-2018 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavC View Post
Where are you getting a 6 hour swap for a defender?

the 2.8 requires different motor mounts, different trans (in his case he has the LT77, even the later R380 needs stronger shafts), different seatbox, trans tunnel, floors, amongst other things.... this is not at all for a novice yet.

DefendersNW and Uncle Douglas are the only viable projects nearing "drop-in" territory on the defender so far. It's an interesting possibility for sure, but don't go suggesting an expensive solution that hasn't been done by more than a handful of people to someone as a "oh you'll bang it out in 6 hours or a weekend".

Cummins in a defender - Page 15 - Defender Source

https://nas-row.com/showthread.php?t=573&page=42
Not sure where you getting your info or how old it is.
I've seen the NAS-ROW discussion, but it seems a few other folks have done the same conversion, with far less headache.

Here is just one example of a "simple" drop in with a R380
https://www.repowerowners.com/forum/...ld-on-the-road
However if you want to keep the LT77 you can use the adapter kit from Axis Industries. A bit more pricey than sourcing a R380, but allow you to keep the stock drive train
Cummins R2.8 to LT77/R380 Adapter Kit
Also there are a few companies working on the Defender drop in motor mounts.

The cost to source and rebuild a 200tdi, or 300tdi will be very close to a R2.8 conversion. "easy"... not for the novice shade tree mechanic. But the conversion could be carried out with the multitude of adapters and mounts available.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguardoc504 View Post
Not sure where you getting your info or how old it is.
I've seen the NAS-ROW discussion, but it seems a few other folks have done the same conversion, with far less headache.

Here is just one example of a "simple" drop in with a R380
https://www.repowerowners.com/forum/...ld-on-the-road
However if you want to keep the LT77 you can use the adapter kit from Axis Industries. A bit more pricey than sourcing a R380, but allow you to keep the stock drive train
Cummins R2.8 to LT77/R380 Adapter Kit
Also there are a few companies working on the Defender drop in motor mounts.

The cost to source and rebuild a 200tdi, or 300tdi will be very close to a R2.8 conversion. "easy"... not for the novice shade tree mechanic. But the conversion could be carried out with the multitude of adapters and mounts available.
I see your point on cost, it would be close. Yet, I question the idea of keeping an LT77 behind a motor that can easily break it. Maybe with a very low base tune you could get away with it...

Then you get into the issue of what to do when the LT77 shafts break because the 2.8 tune set is too high, yes you can fit an R380 but only the V8 long shaft with matching bellhousing (hard to get here) will fit, or you go the NV way and now its more work. If he has a good source for a trans and is ready to DIY mounts or have a good shop do it then it could work. Just the R380 adapter plate for the unobtanium bellhousing is like $3000.

My info comes from those dsource/nasrow threads. Sure I bet UK people are doing these faster but since OP is here and those threads are NA specific it would be more applicable for him since he wouldn't have all the access to parts and skill available in UK.

I do see what you are saying, maybe this is a lot closer to being an option than I was aware of.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavC View Post
I see your point on cost, it would be close. Yet, I question the idea of keeping an LT77 behind a motor that can easily break it. Maybe with a very low base tune you could get away with it...

Then you get into the issue of what to do when the LT77 shafts break because the 2.8 tune set is too high, yes you can fit an R380 but only the V8 long shaft with matching bellhousing (hard to get here) will fit, or you go the NV way and now its more work. If he has a good source for a trans and is ready to DIY mounts or have a good shop do it then it could work. Just the R380 adapter plate for the unobtanium bellhousing is like $3000.

My info comes from those dsource/nasrow threads. Sure I bet UK people are doing these faster but since OP is here and those threads are NA specific it would be more applicable for him since he wouldn't have all the access to parts and skill available in UK.

I do see what you are saying, maybe this is a lot closer to being an option than I was aware of.
The stock R2.8 tune would be withing the LT77s' ability. This new tune that has come out with over 350ftlbs would be a bit much though.
The stock R2.8 is 2.5x the available power in a 19J and 2x...ish that in a 200/300tdi.

A R380 with the longer bell housing could be had from Ashcroft, or similar rebuilder. I mean if you going to drop 10K on a motor conversion, might as well make sure everything is up to par. Culd also just buy the 380 and convert with and EU bell housing and input shaft. There are quite a few R380 kicking about.

A 200tdi, or 300tdi (stripped of electrics) would also be a viable option. But the 200tdi parts are becoming harder and harder to source, and the 300tdi availability in the US would cause you to source it from Europe. The shipping along would be nuts.

I agree there is not a whole lot of data to support the economic of a R2.8 conversion. But it is quickly becoming a very viable option. In another 6 months to a year, you will find complete conversion kits for under $2K

Last edited by jaguardoc504; 04-25-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:11 AM
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Would a diesel out of a dodge or ford fit in the defender? go with the whole engine and transmission and transfercase? Or am I just dreaming or having a nightmare?
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguardoc504 View Post
The stock R2.8 tune would be withing the LT77s' ability. This new tune that has come out with over 350ftlbs would be a bit much though.
The stock R2.8 is 2.5x the available power in a 19J and 2x...ish that in a 200/300tdi.

A R380 with the longer bell housing could be had from Ashcroft, or similar rebuilder. I mean if you going to drop 10K on a motor conversion, might as well make sure everything is up to par. Culd also just buy the 380 and convert with and EU bell housing and input shaft. There are quite a few R380 kicking about.

A 200tdi, or 300tdi (stripped of electrics) would also be a viable option. But the 200tdi parts are becoming harder and harder to source, and the 300tdi availability in the US would cause you to source it from Europe. The shipping along would be nuts.

I agree there is not a whole lot of data to support the economic of a R2.8 conversion. But it is quickly becoming a very viable option. In another 6 months to a year, you will find complete conversion kits for under $2K
I see 385 lbs/ft @ 1800 rpm for the cummins.... given the sensitivity of the LT77 1st and 2nd gear syncros I wonder... It's a dice roll if he has an early LT box or a later stronger one that compares to R380.

The bellhousing is not available from Ashcroft with a trans. Maybe if you call John and he can get you one. I just had a unit shipped last year for a car with the longer housing and it was just the trans. They occasionally have the modified LT85 bellhousings but it shows out of stock as of now. By EU bellhousing (?)... you mean the short bellhousing? Misnomer as there is not an EU housing, Long is V8 and short is for R380 direct swaps into LT tunnels or for diesel specific operations. For the short housing there are still questions about overall strength behind a 2.8 and then there is the problem with adapters. Only known one available I see is for long housing only.

Parts availability is the boogeyman to those not actually working on the 200 and 300. Lets say a 200 head... sure those are getting very hard to find. However the 300 head and injectors fits on a 200 block so not the end of the world. As for shipping. No it isn't 'nuts'. Just had a fuel tank assembly shipped for $30 US. Sources exist both domestically and in UK.

Your suggestions are adding a huge amount of costs to the proposition. Perhaps in a few years we will see costs erode as kits come out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Would a diesel out of a dodge or ford fit in the defender? go with the whole engine and transmission and transfercase? Or am I just dreaming or having a nightmare?
4 cylinder ford duratorq is what is in the 'puma' defender. Does require a ford 6 speed box and a trans output shaft that converts to LT230 input splines. Everything else can be stock. Other problems with that setup but it is a common one.
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