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Newbie posting. Looking for the kind of variety of opinions that can only be found on the internet... so here goes.
I have a 1997 Disco SD 5-Speed that was reportedly used by LRNA during an expedition across Mongolia in 1997. I think it pre-dated the Camel Trophy race in Mongolia by a few months...
It's in rough shape. The low oil pressure light is on, and the mechanic says he can hear some rod knock. It also spent 16 years being driven on salty roads in WI, and looks the part underneath. It doesn't quite need a new frame yet (meaning it hasn't collapsed in on itself), but most people who look underneath gasp audibly. One mechanic who looked at it says he never wishes to speak of it again.
My question is: Is it worth saving? Given its history and rarity of the 1997 5-Speeds, maybe? I may be overestimating the value of its (not officially verified) history. But getting it roady-worthy again would be expensive, and I would be paying someone else to do the work.
The first private owner put some extra goodies on it (ARB bumper with a Warn winch up front, Land Rover fog lights, Safari snorkel, etc.), so worst case scenario, I could just part it out. Seems a shame though.
I'll attach some pics both current and from the Mongolia Expedition in 1997.
You have any documentation on the vehicle from LRNA? That would be valuable. If you can prove it was the one from Mongolia, it would add value certainly. Without that, it is still a running D1 and, of course, worth saving
How jacked is the frame?
Hi stillruns!
I reached out to LRNA a while back to see if they could confirm its history, and they said that their "records didn't go back that far." I just messaged them again to see if I get a different answer.
The frame is pretty bad. One concern the first mechanic/restorer had was that if we were to replace the engine first, a working engine might produce enough torque that the frame would twist and break.
Nice rig. Great story. Frames can be fixed/repaired &replaced. Guys do it all the time on Corvettes and other classic cars. For guys who've done frame swaps it's not as big of a deal as it is to guys who haven't. If you go to the Corvette C3 forum, there are 'frame swapping' threads literally every 3rd day. Guys have been removing and repairing & restoring Corvette frames since the 80's on C2's/C3's. I've been involved in many Corvette body removals and re-installations. It's just a matter of costs and how much you are willing to invest. In your case I would consider outright replacement, but hard to say w/o seeing it. Given all the Discos out there that are used for parts, or in salvage yards, guy's back yards, you ought to be able to buy a good rust-free frame for $500 or less. Any serial numbers can be cut out and re-welded onto the replacement frame. I bought a rust-free frame for an 80's Toyota pickup for $300. I advertised out in S. Dakota. Guy was happy to get rid of it! And for $200 more he sold me the cab and rear diff! Was there ever a vehicle where the frames (and bodies) rusted out faster than early 80's Toyota RNs? lol!! Guys in the Off-road world also remove and swap/rebuild frames too.
You might ask someone who's got experience in frame work and metal fabbing to take a look at your frame. It might look 'toast' to you, but maybe to a guy who's done some pro-level frame fab work they might be able to drop it and cut out the bad and weld in new metal. I just can't say w/o seeing it. If it's anything like my plow Jeep, yeah, replacing probably makes more sense. Esp if the stated provenance of your vehicle turns out to be valid. Someday D1's will have a lot more value.
In the non-rustbelt areas of the country, frames actually don't have a lot of value, for many vehicles ...and I would put Disco's in that category. Corvettes, for instance their frames DO rot out and people DO restore them all the time. The frames are essentially the same from 63-82. Therefore their frames have value. But how many people are restoring Disco's right now? And due to a frame's size and difficulty to move/ship, are somewhat unsaleable unless the seller finds the 'right' guy. Surely there's some guy out there, if you turn over enough rocks, (advertise on facebook) who's got a D1 frame leaning up against his shed who'd be tickled to sell it. I see guys in WI and the CHI area who are selling D1 parts. You might stumble across one that has a good frame and swing a deal. Or search out a southern region like KY, TN, S. IL. Driving distance. Then it's a matter of labor to switch it over.
While your're at it, take a look at the rest of your suspension and running gear. Make a list of what else you might need to replace. You might be better off buying a whole rolling frame and running gear, with all the brake lines, fuel lines, rust-free gas tank ...and as complete as you can get it. Your brake lines are for sure rotted, and just re-making those, or tracking down original lines and paying someone to install them ....will take some time, like a day at least, which would be a lot easier if they were already installed on a frame you bought. And you 'could' rebuild certain things that needed it like front spindle bearings, etc. Super easy to do on a rolling frame. Then once you're ready to swap, you just lift body off on a 2-post lift, then swap over your engine/tranny, etc and roll new complete frame back under body. Saves time. And guess if it were me, and I had the engine out, I'd put on new head gaskets, and front/rear oil seals since they leak like crazy anyway.
Another option is to buy a whole non-running parts vehicle. The only problem with that is you have the labor and extra cost to remove the frame and then need to deal with the rest later on. If you're paying a shop, that might be an extra labor cost vs buying a replacement frame or 'roller' outright. Try to locate a frame within a day's drive then you can just rent/borrow a trailer and go get it. What's going to happen oncee you get a frame is you're goiing to say, "well, we ought to replace this ..then, since we're there, we should put new of 'these' on it" Before you know it, you'll have a lot of expense in it.
You might want to start asking around what some guys would charge to swap it over. You 'Might' consider talking to some of these Corvette C3 guys who've done a number of frame swaps in their garage/shop, and see if they'd be interested. Probably be cheaper, maybe you could help on weekends. A body shop that doesn't mind some 'filler' work (early spring/feb can get real slow!) ...so they can keep their guys busy. Or like a guy who works at a bodyshop, and has a home shop and doesn't mind taking on a project would be a good candidate. Or someone who is in the street rod scene.
Just make sure you check reputation. You don't want to find a guy who starts a job and doesn't finish it, and there your L/R sits for 3 years disassembled. Those horror stories do happen. Quite a bit actually. Make sure you discuss a clear timeline too. Have it in writing. If the guy/shop ends up taking 3-4 months longer, I wouldn't get worked up over that. You just want to avoid the worst--case scenario.
That's how I would approach it.
As far as researching credentials of your disco, the challenge is to find the 'right' guy at L/R. I guarantee there's a guy out there. Probably near retirement, or recently retired. You're right, it's the perfect question for the internet. My understanding is that at L/R in Solihill, they have (or used to have) a customer-facing operation and probably have someone there who could provide answers. You might want to integrate into the UK L/R enthusiast forums. And, there was a long-term editor for Land Rover Monthly who's published some Land Rover books. Was real integrated with L/R for many yrs. I don't recall his name. Nose around the internet and someone like that or try too get ahold of a Land Rover parts company and someone very knowledgeable (not the low level customer service agent) could probably point you in the right direction also. You might even subscribe to Land Rover Monthly digital edition and use that as a jump-on resource. Good luck. Nice looking rig!! I think I remember seeing those pictures way back in the day..
Love these suggestions. Hopefully I can get the guy who agreed to do the work initially to sell me a rolling frame and engine. He won't be cheap, but it might expedite the process if I can find someone willing to complete the work. Then it's a matter of logistics in getting both my Disco and the frame/engine to them. I don't want to try to drive it far in its current condition.
It'd be great to get it back on the road. I've driven other 5-speed Discos, and they weren't quite the same.
There's also the remote possibility that the frame on this one could be saved. It's from WI, but I'm in NM now, and I think part of the reactions I've gotten to the condition is that mechanics out here aren't used to the horrors that pass for acceptable in the rustbelt.
Also going to try reaching out to Solihull and see if they have any records on the truck. After Mongolia, the truck was allegedly shipped back there for refurbishing, then sent to Baltimore where it got lost in the port for a couple of years. It was discovered during the audit conducted as Ford was buying LR, then sent to the local dealership, where the first private owner purchased it. This part of the story is actually supported by the Carfax, which shows the first service was a pre-delivery inspection in 2000. They performed the 30k mile service when the truck had 5k miles on it. Too bad the Carfax doesn't say something like "oil change at LR Dealer in Ulan Bator."
Thanks again for the suggestions! I know what my homework is now!
I apologize in advance if you've already tried these ideas:
1) Do you have these 1997 magazines which you might troll through for names of L/R company staff, or Mongolia organizers or the magazine editors, staff, etc. To look up and possibly get other contacts? Or even the magazine editors or story contributors? There's also Land Rover Monthly ..another magazine. https://www.ebay.com/itm/234294563513 https://www.ebay.com/itm/234294563335
2) Perhaps try emailing guys who've written or edited some of the L/R Disco books out there. Or LRM magazine editors. They might still be in contact with retired (or current old-guard) Land Rover employees who might be able to make a few well-placed phone calls to dig into your vehicle.
3) Perhaps a Linkedin search for former L/R executives and marketing personal. Put together a letter somewhat like your original post (above). See what comes back. Those who rise to the level of Director and above have often held numerous past positions -- fingers in a lot of pies. Have you contacted the L/R dealer at the port it was tied up at? Maybe ask who the dealership owners were around 1999. A lot of those guys might still be around. Have you tried other 4x4 forums, or maybe email a couple of the guys at Four-Wheeler magazine (a lot of old-guard staff there). Pick up the phone.
Thanks for the replies! I have the hard copy of LR Journal from Spring/Summer 1998 where those pics I posted came from. There's a foreword by Charles R. Hughes, President of LRNA and Canada. Just found him on LinkedIn, explained the scenario, and asked if he knew where I should look for verification (or not). Fingers crossed. Maybe I'll get it running, drive it to Snowmass Village, CO, where he apparently lives, street-park it, and wait.
I'd read that Amanda Jones article before. I noticed she mentioned the "leather seats" in the Disco.... mine doesn't have that. Maybe the blue one did? Maybe some creative license on her part? Or maybe mine is just a tribute to an obscure corporate outing with well-placed stickers.
12-03-2021, 02:56 PM
1997 Disco 5-Speed from Mongolia Expedition
