If 1998 Disco 1 doesn't have a Spider to immobilize the vehicle, how is this achieved ( immobilisation of the vehicle) ??
I thought all Disco 1 have AS10 alarm sistem including Spider immobilisation. I have a Disco 1 from 1998 and it does immobilize if I open the door with the key. How is that achieved without a Spider ?
Thank you for your info.

 

I believe the USA models are the ones without a spyder.

 

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how do I tell if it's a USA model?

 

Question: When you normally crank the motor over, before the most recent issue began, was the starter kind of slow in cranking?

Ok this is a long story, but read through, maybe it'll help:
On my 1998 Disco (USA Model), the starter was always sort of slow cranking. Not like it had a dead battery, but just slower than all the other vehicles I have, about 1/2 of normal speed. You can tell a slow starter when you hear it. But it never left me stranded and I just figured either that's how the L/R starters were, or it was weak and I'd live with it until it got to the point where it needed replacing (which eventually ended up being 5 years!). I kind of figured it was pulling high amps but since it's a 3rd-4th vehicle, I wasn't inclined to act until I needed. Now, I 'DID' have a couple delayed start situations over the years like you reported and a couple no-starts, which made me scratch my head. It was like a 2 second delay, which I've never had happen on a vehicle before (strange), but it always started fairly quickly afterwards, so I never de-bugged the issue.

Fast forward to last year, the starter solenoid it seemed, progressively worsened to the point where the contacts got burnt to the point where they wouldn't make a good contact at the starter solenoid, and eventually I replaced the whole starter ...with a used Lucus starter. The starter solenoid, if you're not familiar with them, is located above the starter and pulls back a plunger when the key is turned. That action accomplishes a couple things: 1) Pulls a round copper disk back onto a set of heavy copper connectors, which the main battery cable connects to ...and closes the starter circuit and makes the starter motor turn, 2) Simultaneously pulls back an arm which is connected to the starter gear drive which makes it pop out of the end of the starter to mate with the teeth on the engine ring gear (basically spins the engine when the starter begins to turn). That solenoid makes a clicking sound you often hear when the battery gets too low to turn the engine, but still has enough juice to pull the starter solenoid back. The other thing is, the main + battery cable connects to the back of the solenoid too.

When I went to start my 98 up after installing the new starter (which BTW was an absolute SOB to replace!!), it cranked over the motor effortlessly and faster than it ever did. Like it always should have! I was hoping that would be the case and it pleased me greatly when it was. In the process of the starter replacement, I also cleaned all the battery cable and wire connections, grounds associated with the battery and starter, which weren't too bad looking, and coated them with copper anti-seize for better conductivity and stave off future corrosion. Obviously, that may also have helped, but like I said, they didn't look too terrible, but everything was coated in years of oil and gunk from all the oil these motors leak!

Since then, I haven't experienced any 'funny' starting conditions since being replaced last summer/fall. I don't drive it in the winter, so I only have a couple 3-4 months behind the wheel, maybe not enough to say it's 'cured' for good, but in the time since I haven't experienced the delayed starting issue.

When a person analyzes it, it sort of makes sense: starter solenoid contacts burn up due to age/heat/general wear, ...when the operator engages the starter, the solonoid pulls back and a copper disk closes the circuit between the cable connectors to let current flow to the starter, and also start the ignition process. The Lucas solenoids are sealed, but if you've ever seen old solenoid contacts ...say, from the older GM cars where you could just replace the contact portion of the solenoid, the copper contacts get burned to the point where there's hardly anything left. At that point, if the oporator turns the key on and off a few times, the round copper disk which pulls back to the contacts, will eventually make 'some' contact with whatever is left of the copper contacts. Whey they are really burnt and pitted, it's hard to imagine the starter getting the needed current. After doing this a number of times, eventually there just isn't anything left of the contacts and that copper disk just won't be able to close the circuit. I didn't cut my old Disco solenoid open, but I suspect that's what I would find.

So.... not saying that's the issue, but it's something to look into. GM (which these motors are basically from) had a big problem back in the 70's-80's with small block starters and solenoids prematurely wearing out, or just plain not working, due to the heat where they are located (between the block and hot exhaust manifold). It was a famous thing that car guys just knew about back then. And often you'd go to a gas station, get gas, and the car wouldn't even turn over. The heat would seemly disable the solenoid. Let the starter cool down a while and you were good to go. I've personally seen it happen a bunch of times. Sometimes the heat would affect the starter windings and it would attempt to start but not have enough ooomph. Sometimes this could go on for years, but the wise thing to do was change the starter because the windings were getting weak too. Eventually GM came out with different heat shields, which helped. Plus, on the Disco's the starters are typically bathed in oil for years, which keeps them rust-free, but raises heck with the windings.

I laughed (scoffed actually) last summer when changing the starter on the Disco. There were some real engineering overlooks when they slapped that puppy together! You have to go through way more work than a guy should need to in order to replace the starter. You really appreciate the engineering details of the larger companies when you run into some of the wacky things on Land Rovers. I guess just chalk it up to the Land Rover 'mystique'. My advice if you do it is to buy a quality new or rebuild unit so you only have to do the job once, and thoroughly degrease the area ahead of time to make it a little cleaner to work on. I didn't need to remove the driveshaft like some report. At the very least, your solenoid may need replacing, which are pretty cheap off Ebay. If your starter turns over fast and fine already, it still wouldn't hurt to clean all the cable ends and ground just in case.

Hope it helps! Keep us posted on this issue..

 

Ok, so I've investigated the wiring and connectors a little more closely and found that the insulation is cracking off of several of the sensor wires. First photo is of the connector to the Crank Position Sensor:



Needless to say, I've order a new pig tail and a new CPS in the event that the wire crossed and shorted out the sensor.

The second photo is of, what I assume to be, the thermostat sensor?



I'm ordering a new pig tail for this sensor as well.

The last one is one I can't readily identify. It's a sensor located near to the CPS on the underside of the motor, though a little farther forward.



As you can see, the connector is frayed and the wire insulation gone.



Farther up the wire, above the engine, the insulation is completely gone.



I'm going to splice on some new connectors. What is the sensor beneath the motor? What can I do about the wire insulation, aside from wrapping it in elec tape?

 

Should be knock sensor.
......

 

....is be a knock sensor and you have two of them, one on each side of block. Heat shrink tubing is what I'd use if your going with pigtails and even the braided wire I see. Should be able to pick it up at electrical supply stores or automotive parts palaces, comes in spools or pre cut lengths. Use silver solder on your pigtail connections, best there is for low voltage/milliamp signals.

 

So I cleaned up all the connections detailed above, reinsulated the wires with elec tape (until the new pig tails come in) and reconnected. No change. No power to fuel pump in position 2 on ignition switch. Engine cranks, but doesn't turn over. Starter sounds good. Been disconnecting neg battery cable in between work (have a power leak somewhere). Code reader has error connecting. All fuses are good. Nothing indicating it's immobilized. Everything else works. New Crank Position Sensor will be in later this week and will switch it out this weekend. Stay tuned...

 

Wow, thems is some nasty wires!!!

 

How soon after switch turned are you checking for pwr? There is a short timeout period and if not started and running the relay will open.

Cranks with starter but doesn't start or continue to run correct?

Your emissions sticker indicates you don't have a USA vehicle. Of what island nation? Spider possible?
......