I know right....some of rural parts of CA have no SMOG!?!??! Lucky bastard!!! I have a few friends that live out Lake County. Once you do the first smog, it is game on after that!!!

 

i guess for the sake of reference any of the info i manage to gather in here on how to run the engine will be relevant to someone doing a complete standalone setup and removing the obd2 ability.


i still encourage you to give it a go with the option to unplug the MS and emissions test if youre interested

 

Yeah maybe....down the line. I'd like to see how efficient you can make the run first. At least you are using a good, affordable system...and not like the good 'ole MoTec or Electromotive which come with a damn novel and cost an arm and a leg (or two).

Figure it out and get it going. Maybe we can design a harness specific for the D's.....making it plug and play, and relatively affordable to do.

 

Then there is always old school.... let your brain control the right foot based on economics of the moment, proximity to law enforcement, and that ponderous Hummer ahead that needs a good look at your tire carrier.

 

Electromotive is a joke in my opinion, their software and configuration stuff is really stuck in the early days of standalone... and terrible to use. although just checking their website this morning it looks like theyve gone away from using the TEC2/3 designations for their stuff so maybe something has improved - but i doubt it.

Motec is good stuff but you pay out the nose for it, no sense spending $4500 on a mid level Motec setup to run 8 cylinders, when the truck cost half that.

if i was considering a different system id probably lean toward the Vipec... but again... way, way more $, and im actually a really big fan of MS (surprise! haha )


and carbs... yeah... no thanks haha


speaking of money, heres a rough breakdown of the retail cost on the MS3 stuff:

MS3 ECU w/ baro correction $450
MS3 harness $85
MS3x expansion board (optional) $90
MS3x harness (optional) $90
knock module $85
total $800
just a straight MS3 setup without the expansion board would be ~$620

theres a few spots to save even more money there by getting shorter harnesses, and as i mentioned in the first post you could run the truck on MS2 as well, and bring the total down to $375... but youd be missing a few features (knock control being probably the most notable example, which isnt as big of a deal as it might sound...).

 

This setup is tempting, but a Tornado chip installed in a 96 ECU would eliminate the security module, AEL and downstream O2 sensors, keep OBDII, improve power, and improve efficiency. Both are expensive, but the Tornado has some advantages in addition to being easier to install.

 

the obd2 portion really isnt lost, im not sure if i explained that well enough hah

and in terms of troubleshooting sensors or running issues, it really doesnt get any easier than standalone - you plug in your laptop and have the same readouts as you do with your obd2 scanner.

im not a fan of chip tunes, theyre never as good as something custom tailored to that specific engine. but i agree, certainly easier for most folks to install (assuming the chip is easily removable on these ecus?)

 

An aftermarket ECM is certainly excellent in tuning and diagnostics. However, using a 96 ECU allows removing the AEL and rear O2 without throwing codes and allows passing of inspection even when chipped. According to Mark at Tornado the ECM is actually reprogrammed using a modified P38 ROM.

 

The EEPROM's are a piece of cake to remove. Eric, you've got me thinking.....P38 chips out of a GEM's....hmmm.

ValveCover the knock sensors are necessary if you want to maintain the SFI which I would.

For $500 for two chips or $800 for several circuit boards and free software you have to tinker with I think I'd add a few bucks more and just buy a Northstar LH2 with tranny, harness and box. Light weight and capable of much higher efficiency/output on regular pump gas than our lumps without serious grinding/aftermarket mechanical improvements.

That's where I'm headed and it seems to be a 4X4 trend. I've been all over the MS idea for several years now and it just doesn't seem to pan out for a new control system when the mechanical efficiency of these motors doesn't exist for such a heavy vehicle or foot. At best your only going to decrease the over-fueling/carbon creation and see maybe a 20 to 30 horse/ft lbs increase on a bone stock 4.0 you know......

Not arguing, I'll be keeping tabs on this thread to see where it all goes.

 

knock sensors are staying as i mentioned. ive tuned and built plenty of MS cars without them, with 0 issues, but for this thing given the type of use it regularly sees i think theyll be a good idea.

im not interested in an engine swap, although thats definitely a good way to go for some and im sure better economy and more power are best attained through replacing the stock engine. the only thing id point out there is youd likely have a much tougher time maintaining the obd2 readiness with an engine swap, than a setup like this that just requires plugging in the stock ecu again. i suppose chipping the northstar motor to remove the interaction of the charcoal can and other evap emissions stuff you likely wont be swapping over is an option, but thats yet more cost...

like i said in the first post, im not really after more power, although that certainly would be an added benefit, im more interested in decreasing the random signal related no start/poor running issues these things seem to have, and increasing the mileage on the highway.

not taken as arguing, its nice to brainstorm.