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Looong Cranking then start

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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 11:46 AM
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Default Looong Cranking then start

Relatively new to the rover game, I've had the disco (96') for about 2 months. When I first picked it up she was starting fine and as the days/weeks have gone on its taking longer and longer to start. Its cranking just takes way longer than normal to actually start (10-15 seconds). You guys have any ideas?
I've done a bit of searching on here and most threads involve not starting at all, so I'm hoping this may be an easier culprit to track down.
Thanks in advance for the help.
 

Last edited by discoHUSS; Jul 17, 2013 at 02:07 PM.
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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 04:52 PM
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Check all your ignition components. But in my experience with any car 96+, a long crank is usually a cam sensor. The cam sensor will tell the PCM when cylinder 1 is at TDC. The crank sensor does not do this as a lot of people think. So if the PCM doesn't know when cyl 1 is at TDC, it cranks for a few extra seconds until it realizes its not starting. The PCM the starts to batch fire the injectors (firing all at once) in an attempt to sync the ignition timing and achieve a start.

My disclaimer is that Ive never touched a Rover that's newer than 95, so don't bash me too severely if Im incorrect. This is just what Ive learned about nearly every OBDII vehicle.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 05:02 PM
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Let us consider a couple of possibilities.

If the fuel pump is wimpy, that long cranking could be the pump priming back up. With no tools, try turn key to position 2, wait 3 seconds, then off, and repeat 4 times. On 4th time turn key all the way to crank. If it starts right up, the suspect the pump, fuel filter, or fuel pressure regulator. There is a test valve on the passenger side fuel rail, looks like a tire valve. Expect 32-34 PSI there when key turned to position 2 and while running. Pump only runs a couple of seconds when you try to start if engine is not making 80 rpm.

Now if the CKP sensor is bad, usually won't crank at all, and there won't be sparks, check with a spare plug and lay on manifold. CKP ensors normally show their ugly side when engine is hot, turned of for a few minutes (park at store), and then it won't crank back up until cooled off.
 

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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 05:02 PM
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I vote leaky injectors or tired starter not turning as fast anymore.

More clues might help.

Does it start easy if you drive it, turn it off, and immediately try to restart? Or is it even harder to start when the engine is warmed up?
 
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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Savannah Buzz
Let us consider a couple of possibilities.

If the fule pump is wimpy, that long cranking could be the pump priming back up. With no tools, try turn key to position 2, wait 3 seconds, then off, and repeat 4 times. On 4th time turn key all the way to crank. If it starts right up, the suspect the pump, fuel filter, or fuel pressure regulator. There is a test valve on the passenger side fuel rail, looks like a tire valve. Expect 32-34 PSI there when key turned to position 2 and while running. Pump only runs a couple of seconds when you try to start if engine is not making 80 rpm.

Now if the CKP sensor is bad, usually won't crank at all, and there won't be sparks, check with a spare plug and lay on manifold. CKP ensors normally show their ugly side when engine is hot, turned of for a few minutes (park at store), and then it won't crank back up until cooled off.
I agree that if the CKP (crank sensor) is faulty then there will be a no spark/no start. What Im referring to is the CMP (camshaft position sensor). The cam sensors job is to report to the PCM when cylinder 1 is at TDC. A vehicle can and will run without it or with it failing/failed. Common symptoms are stalling especially when decelerating, long crank, and intermittent misfiring.

I should have suggested the usual fuel and spark tests first. I make the mistake of assuming everyone is like me and pulls their plugs for a color check when a turn signal bulb goes out.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 05:34 PM
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It is quite true that the CMP does as you state, and vehicle will run without it, but should set an error code. It also helps tell the ECU the position of the cam/valves at shutdown, so that can be held in memory and fuel and volts sent to the most likely cylinders to need it on the next start up.

I would imagine that you could unplug the CMP to test, and crank up on the default. Expensive sensor also.

All of these ideas could be part of the puzzle of the droopy Disco.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 05:41 PM
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Thanks for the responses. I'm a noob, so no bashing will be coming from my direction.
I'll give the no tools fuel pump/filter/regulator a check first and work my way through it.
As for starting quicker after running, yeah it helps but not much, still an overly long crank before she starts. Also no check engine light (don't know if that cancels any possibilities out), just the usual ABS light; on some days, gone others.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 05:59 PM
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When performing a fuel pressure test, as important as the PSI is when priming is the leakdown rate, which should be 0. Turn the key to on and measure the fuel pressure. Leave the key in the on position and monitor the pressure for 10 minutes. The pressure should hold steady with a possible drop of 1-2 PSI. If pressure falls, you likely have a fuel leak/bad pump/bad FPR.

This does of course require a fuel pressure tester, available at any parts store or HF. I got the HF master test kit for $80 and after using it twice, it paid for itself.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2013 | 06:55 PM
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As a noob, please introduce yourself to the local auto parts store and check out the array of tools they will rent/loan out.
 
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Old Jul 18, 2013 | 09:26 AM
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Not a noob to wrenching, just the rover. Very handy when it comes to a jeep, just don't know my way around the disco quite yet.
Fuel pressure is good, I'm starting to lean towards injectors, those will receive attention after work this evening.
And thank you all again for the assistance.
 
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