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New cylinder sleeves by local Shop...My story

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New cylinder sleeves by local Shop...My story

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Old 06-22-2018, 01:21 PM
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Default New cylinder sleeves by local Shop...My story

***To avoid my full dialogue and see how much it costs just skip to the bottom.***

So after doing the rod and main bearings about 6 months ago-ish, I decided it was time to pull the motor and do the full rebuild. The ticking on the right side of the top-end was getting louder and thought I didn't want to plow through summer and possibly cook the motor if a tappet stuck. In April I got a Motorcycle and thus my daily driver became a project. I pulled the motor after cursing the factory for tightening the bell housing bolts to survive a nuclear blast but other than that it came out without much fuss. I had a week off and took my time but total it took me about 5-6 hours to get the motor out and on the stand.
Off the bat I have to say, I do not have slipped liners. Before I pulled the motor I did the combustion gas test on the coolant and my motor was clean. That is good but I thought since I had this thing out I might as well see what it would cost to have a local shop machine "top hat" or crowned sleeves in. When I pulled the motor I had 190k miles on the motor without any prior rebuilds. It was first sold in Los Angeles in 98 so it has seen some hot days and bad traffic. It stayed on the West Coast for the rest of its life. My thought was to just do it right if it was reasonable to do so.

Months ago I called Atlantic British to see how much they would charge for a naked block, not a short block, not a long block just a naked block with the mains and sleeves and they quoted me $3900 without a $600 or so core charge. I thought that was steep but I let it go cause my disco ran fine and I wasn't having problems. To be fair I wasn't having problems when I pulled the motor out aside from the valve/tappet noise and the occasional warm running to 215F or so. I called a local engine builder in my little Sierra Town and told him the deal. He was familiar with the Buick 215's he knew they used a very similar (240 of course) engine for Rovers. He was curious and I told him that I needed to hot tank the block anyway regardless if I was going (or willing) to pay to have the sleeves done. He hot tanked the block and called around because he didn't want to undergo the project on his machines.

So the question is always asked how much it costs to have sleeves put in by a local shop and here is the answer I was given. For just the work, that is, not paying for the sleeves as that would be more. For just the machine work I was quoted $250 a hole... So if you carry the one divide by seven multiply by three and subtract the common denominator you are looking at about $2300-2500 before you pay for the sleeves. The extra $300-500 is for decking the block. So... needless to say, at this time, I will be having the stock cylinders honed and rings mic'd then slapping the Iron (and aluminum) Lady back together. There was non mark up for him to farm out the block to another shop. He said that was the price for taking it directly to this other shop.

So Ladies and Gents, what are your thoughts?
 
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:48 PM
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There are youtube videos of people heating the blocks with gas grill tank torches, and tapping/pulling sleeves out with big pliers and a hammer.
And reinstalling the same way.
Put the sleeves in the freezer, heat the block, and be quick and careful. It looks very simple.
Had I had any sleeve problems(fortunately I didn't), this was my next step.
 
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixpack577 View Post
There are youtube videos of people heating the blocks with gas grill tank torches, and tapping/pulling sleeves out with big pliers and a hammer.
And reinstalling the same way.
Put the sleeves in the freezer, heat the block, and be quick and careful. It looks very simple.
Had I had any sleeve problems(fortunately I didn't), this was my next step.
But my understanding is that the block still needs to be machined for the recesses to accept the crown and also to be decked once they are installed so the head surface is flat. Machining will need to be done either way. I am also not a fan of heating up an aluminum block to 200-300 degrees over its normal operating temp to bang sleeves out. I have seen the videos you are talking about but I don't think that's a good idea or a complete solution.
 
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Crunkgringo View Post
But my understanding is that the block still needs to be machined for the recesses to accept the crown and also to be decked once they are installed so the head surface is flat. Machining will need to be done either way. I am also not a fan of heating up an aluminum block to 200-300 degrees over its normal operating temp to bang sleeves out. I have seen the videos you are talking about but I don't think that's a good idea or a complete solution.
Yes, the decks need resurfaced.
But the machine shop will have to heat them to get them out too.
 
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:32 PM
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I was recently quoted about $800 to install 8 flanged liners; in and out. I can save a few $'s if I pull the old ones out myself. Forgot to ask if decking was extra, prolly is, but not 3-500. It sounds like your guy was just marking-up the job since he's subbing it out (why wouldn't he?). Since most modern engines are aluminum, it would stand to reason that a modern shop would commonly do sleeve-jobs, and it wouldn't be as high as you were quoted. Then, again, you are in California. From what I've heard, the cost of everything is among the highest in the country.
 
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wjsj69 View Post
I was recently quoted about $800 to install 8 flanged liners; in and out. I can save a few $'s if I pull the old ones out myself. Forgot to ask if decking was extra, prolly is, but not 3-500. It sounds like your guy was just marking-up the job since he's subbing it out (why wouldn't he?). Since most modern engines are aluminum, it would stand to reason that a modern shop would commonly do sleeve-jobs, and it wouldn't be as high as you were quoted. Then, again, you are in California. From what I've heard, the cost of everything is among the highest in the country.
He quoted me the price of that shop with me dropping the block off to the shop that would be doing it so no markup. And yes you are correct everything is more expensive here but dang...
 
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:37 PM
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So my adventure continues. My cam was "missing" 3 lobes and few others were about to go. All the pistons, cylinders, main and rod journals were in spec and I get to use standard bearings for everything. Not bad for a motor that doesn't look like it had oil changes and sat in traffic for most of its life in Los Angeles. My block should be done next week and I will start assembling the lower rotating assembly. I ordered heads from an EBAY seller and got one of them in that had an actual hole through one of the exhaust ports. I had to contact them and they will be sending me a new head. I asked specifically for a head that is an older casting so that the quality of the casting itself might be a bit better. We'll see I guess. I got one that was HRC 2479 13 (the good) and the other HRC 2479 17 (bad and ugly).
 
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:43 AM
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So I got my engine back from the machinist. The list of work that was done was; new rings installed, cylinders honed and rounded, rods squared and clearances checked, block was hot dipped and oil ways cleaned, crank (Mains and big end) ground .010 under, new cam bearings installed and the block surface decked. This alone cost me $883. This price includes the rod and main bearings. The idea that 8 sleeves would cost the same as this amount of work seems unlikely to me but I do live in California.

I will be installing new rocker arms, rocker shafts, lifters, cam, redone heads, new timing chain and gears (again), new oil pump, timing chain cover (junk yard find in better shape than mine) and of course new front and rear crank seals. I also split the manifold/intake and replaced the fuel injector o-rings, cleaned and re-hylomared the surfaces from the lower manifold to the intermediate and cleaned all the funk out of the intake hot block and replaced that gasket as it comes with the gasket kit.
In the Tranny I replaced all the oil cooler lines, transmission mounts and the transmission oil filter and pan gasket. I also took my radiator to a shop to have it hot tanked but I guess the it needed to be re-rodded and so my Radiator is fresh and repainted (that was $225!) I am rewrapping some of the motor wiring harness cover and checking/cleaning all my grounds while the motor is out. When this thing is done it is going to run like new... or better.
The total cost for this project has been around $3,000 I would guess and has taken me about 2 months. I will start assembling the motor soon God willing.
 
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Old 08-03-2018, 01:13 PM
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Should be a solid motor when your done. Only arm chair quarterback comment I have is I would have looked into a new timing cover opposed to used.
 
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Old 08-03-2018, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ArmyRover View Post
Should be a solid motor when your done. Only arm chair quarterback comment I have is I would have looked into a new timing cover opposed to used.
This^

All those new parts, and $ spent.
Putting a used cover on makes no sense at all.
There is no wear/thickness spec on the cover, so you have no idea what you're getting. The oil pump gears wear against the aluminum cover, resulting in low oil pressure.
So you're risking low to no oil pressure on a $3k rebuild, over a $400 part. I get the budget and cost thing, but a used timing cover is Not where to cut corners.
Maybe you get lucky...maybe you ruin your otherwise new engine.
Good luck with it either way.
 
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