After Engine Rebuild - Starts up, then stalls, CODES INSIDE
#1
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Florida, South America
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After Engine Rebuild - Starts up, then stalls, CODES INSIDE
Rebuilt my engine with top-hat/flanged liners recently. I was able to break the camshaft in at 1500-2000 RPM for 25 minutes, no issues with coolant temperature (never went over 190*F) and great oil pressure (around 60-80psi cold at 2000 RPM) (GlowShift Gauges for both temp and oil pressure). I was able to drive it around the block, no transmission slipping noticed. New Bosch Platinum spark plugs, Kingsborne 8mm plug wires, NEW duralast gold battery, new starter, new coolant temp sensor, and new Bosch Crankshaft sensor.
When I start it, it will run anywhere from 5 seconds to 5 minutes or more. No rough idling, no overheating. I have been disconnecting the battery because my GlowShift oil pressure gauge will, with the key out of the ignition, keep turning itself on and then off, repeatedly, and that could drain the battery. The water temp gauge has no such issues and they are wired together. Both gauges also retain their selected LED color, dim when I turn on the headlights, and show accurate sensor readings.
I have checked the NEW battery and alternator and don't see any obvious issues as the battery has 12.58 V with the engine off and the alternator charges at 14.3 V. Battery connections are clean and tight. I pulled the following codes at various times, as I kept disconnecting the battery so the oil pressure gauge wouldn't be a parasitic draw on the battery. I also found the inertia switch, but don't know how to reset it.
I read the ignition coil and Idle Air Control Valve harness plugs are similar and can be mixed up - would it even start at all if these were switched?
Updated Codes:
P0340 --> Camshaft Sensor Error
P1884 --> PWM Signal Failure from Engine ECU
Engine Speed Input Signal Intermittent or Missing
P0560 --> Low System Voltage
P1536 --> AC Compressor Grounded?
P0102 --> MAF Sensor Malfunction
P0418 --> Secondary Air Injection Malfunction
What do you think of my next steps?
Thanks, I really appreciate you taking the time to read this.
When I start it, it will run anywhere from 5 seconds to 5 minutes or more. No rough idling, no overheating. I have been disconnecting the battery because my GlowShift oil pressure gauge will, with the key out of the ignition, keep turning itself on and then off, repeatedly, and that could drain the battery. The water temp gauge has no such issues and they are wired together. Both gauges also retain their selected LED color, dim when I turn on the headlights, and show accurate sensor readings.
I have checked the NEW battery and alternator and don't see any obvious issues as the battery has 12.58 V with the engine off and the alternator charges at 14.3 V. Battery connections are clean and tight. I pulled the following codes at various times, as I kept disconnecting the battery so the oil pressure gauge wouldn't be a parasitic draw on the battery. I also found the inertia switch, but don't know how to reset it.
I read the ignition coil and Idle Air Control Valve harness plugs are similar and can be mixed up - would it even start at all if these were switched?
Updated Codes:
P0340 --> Camshaft Sensor Error
P1884 --> PWM Signal Failure from Engine ECU
Engine Speed Input Signal Intermittent or Missing
P0560 --> Low System Voltage
P1536 --> AC Compressor Grounded?
P0102 --> MAF Sensor Malfunction
P0418 --> Secondary Air Injection Malfunction
What do you think of my next steps?
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Thanks, I really appreciate you taking the time to read this.
Last edited by jthomas; 05-13-2013 at 03:09 PM.
#2
From the RAVE: page 316 of 1529 workshop manual
P0340
Camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction
Open/short circuit to vehicle supply or earth
So wiring or connector problems there. It is a Hall effect sensor, and makes a square wave signal that tells ECU the cam (valve) positions for timing that squirt of fuel at just the right moment. Certain years of Rover engines had one that was two pulse per rotation, and other years had four pulses per rotation. So mixing engines and ECUs and CMP sensors has a set of problems. Engine will run without it (unlike the CKP crank shaft position sensor), but degraded.
1884 code is what OBDII see, but the Rover Testbook sees up to seven additional codes with the CAN BUSS error from the transmission. Basically the tranny and ECU text all the time, worse than teenage cheerleaders. Info about load, torque, gear ratio, etc. is exchanged. May clear when other resolved, because engine will be getting live data that falls within the range of "should be between this or that", instead "out of range".
Expect 50 PSI fuel pressure, regulator is back in the tank as part of the pump.
The pump is rated to deliver 29 gallons per hour, man that would be a thirsty Rover!
Engine block was out of the vehicle, so a ground strap from engine to frame might be missing. Try using a battery jump-me-off cable, one side to (-) battery, and other end of same cable clamped on to sturdy metal on the engine.
Inertia resets with that push. If inertia is open, main relay and fuel pump relay won't operate.
P0340
Camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction
Open/short circuit to vehicle supply or earth
So wiring or connector problems there. It is a Hall effect sensor, and makes a square wave signal that tells ECU the cam (valve) positions for timing that squirt of fuel at just the right moment. Certain years of Rover engines had one that was two pulse per rotation, and other years had four pulses per rotation. So mixing engines and ECUs and CMP sensors has a set of problems. Engine will run without it (unlike the CKP crank shaft position sensor), but degraded.
1884 code is what OBDII see, but the Rover Testbook sees up to seven additional codes with the CAN BUSS error from the transmission. Basically the tranny and ECU text all the time, worse than teenage cheerleaders. Info about load, torque, gear ratio, etc. is exchanged. May clear when other resolved, because engine will be getting live data that falls within the range of "should be between this or that", instead "out of range".
Expect 50 PSI fuel pressure, regulator is back in the tank as part of the pump.
The pump is rated to deliver 29 gallons per hour, man that would be a thirsty Rover!
Engine block was out of the vehicle, so a ground strap from engine to frame might be missing. Try using a battery jump-me-off cable, one side to (-) battery, and other end of same cable clamped on to sturdy metal on the engine.
Inertia resets with that push. If inertia is open, main relay and fuel pump relay won't operate.
#4
#5
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Update:
-Cleaned Idle Air Control Valve with carb cleaner.
-Reset Inertia Switch again
-Ran Jumper Cable from Negative Battery Terminal to Engine
-Tested Voltage From Negative and Positive Battery Posts at 12.48V, Tested Voltage from Positive Battery Post to Engine - 12.48V. So it seems there is no ground issue?
-Verified alternator is charging at 14.11V with engine running and no load and 14.11V with headlights and stereo on - so voltage regulator is OK and alternator is OK.
-Got some new codes after it wouldn't start when cold, then after about 10 cranks and dies, it idled for about 10 minutes before turning off. Then when hot, it wouldn't idle, then after it cooled for about 15 minutes, it turned on again.
-I couldn't get to the shcraeder valve to check the fuel pressure - with SAI, it is near impossible to find. I know from the RAVE it is on the driver's side rear portion of the fuel rail, but I couldn't find it, less so reach it.
-New codes are:
P0560 --> System Voltage
P1536 --> I believe this is something with the AC compressor being grounded - how do I troubleshoot?
-Also observed that it honks once when I go to lock it and will no actually lock the doors, but will unlock them. The red security light is NOT blinking inside. I tried the unlock, lock 3 times sequence, but it still won't lock.
-Radiator fan stays on for a few seconds to a couple minutes after removing key from ignition (I'm pretty sure this is normal).
Thanks again
-Cleaned Idle Air Control Valve with carb cleaner.
-Reset Inertia Switch again
-Ran Jumper Cable from Negative Battery Terminal to Engine
-Tested Voltage From Negative and Positive Battery Posts at 12.48V, Tested Voltage from Positive Battery Post to Engine - 12.48V. So it seems there is no ground issue?
-Verified alternator is charging at 14.11V with engine running and no load and 14.11V with headlights and stereo on - so voltage regulator is OK and alternator is OK.
-Got some new codes after it wouldn't start when cold, then after about 10 cranks and dies, it idled for about 10 minutes before turning off. Then when hot, it wouldn't idle, then after it cooled for about 15 minutes, it turned on again.
-I couldn't get to the shcraeder valve to check the fuel pressure - with SAI, it is near impossible to find. I know from the RAVE it is on the driver's side rear portion of the fuel rail, but I couldn't find it, less so reach it.
-New codes are:
P0560 --> System Voltage
P1536 --> I believe this is something with the AC compressor being grounded - how do I troubleshoot?
-Also observed that it honks once when I go to lock it and will no actually lock the doors, but will unlock them. The red security light is NOT blinking inside. I tried the unlock, lock 3 times sequence, but it still won't lock.
-Radiator fan stays on for a few seconds to a couple minutes after removing key from ignition (I'm pretty sure this is normal).
Thanks again
Last edited by jthomas; 05-11-2013 at 07:50 PM.
#7
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I think a ground issue could explain the issues with the camshaft sensor, AC compressor ground, fan craziness, and why my Glowshift Oil Gauge turns on and off by itself with the car off and key out of ignition.
I already checked the 2 stock ground straps going from the rear of the driver's side head to the firewall and from the negative battery post to below the alternator. All 4 connections are tight and clean. I also tested the ground by comparing voltage between the two battery posts and then the positive post and an exhaust manifold bolt, alternator bracket, and intake and they were all identical.
I would like to mention that I REMOVED a wire that was jerry-rigged by the previous owner between the negative cable coming from the battery and wrapped around the ground terminal by the engine compartment fuse box. There must have been a reason they had it there. I replaced it though and there was no difference, so I removed it again as it definitely didn't appear stock.
Last edited by jthomas; 05-11-2013 at 08:13 PM.
#8
#9
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I'm embarrassed to admit this, but during initial start-up, a hose clamp wasn't tight enough and a hose slipped off, spewing coolant everywhere, including into the engine fuse box that was uncovered from pulling the fuel relay to turn over the engine as to prime the oil pump. I blew it out with compressed air, but just now began to hear a VERY FAINT constant, quick beeping (~1 beep per second) coming from the engine compartment fuse box. I think a relay could be bad.
Last edited by jthomas; 05-11-2013 at 08:36 PM.
#10
Your wiring is messed up somewhere. Code P0560 is rare, the ECU has to see battery voltage of less than 2.55 volts to trigger that. So wiring, grounds, etc. are messed up bad to have that kind of voltage drop.
You could have corrosion in connectors to the ECU, or in the bunch of plug in connectors on the bottom of the underhood fuse box. Pix is of a D1 ECU, but corrosion looks similar.
The 1536 code deals with the circuit that triggers the compressor relay, again screwed up wiring, maybe a connector full of water, etc.
Don't know if your connectors are corroded, or not seated good.
Another way to meter is to keep one lead on negative battery post, then touch other ground spots, should be way less than 1 volt of drop. Ditto for positive post to other positive voltage points, minimal drop is expected.
You could have corrosion in connectors to the ECU, or in the bunch of plug in connectors on the bottom of the underhood fuse box. Pix is of a D1 ECU, but corrosion looks similar.
The 1536 code deals with the circuit that triggers the compressor relay, again screwed up wiring, maybe a connector full of water, etc.
Don't know if your connectors are corroded, or not seated good.
Another way to meter is to keep one lead on negative battery post, then touch other ground spots, should be way less than 1 volt of drop. Ditto for positive post to other positive voltage points, minimal drop is expected.