After Engine Rebuild - Starts up, then stalls, CODES INSIDE
#12
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Florida, South America
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Savannah, I'll look into those things tomorrow. I'll remove the fuse box and see if there is any corrosion on the bottom after the coolant mishap. The coolant DEFINITELY got into the engine fuse box as it was visible on the contacts after removing the relays. I blew it out right away with compressed air, but maybe it pushed it in further? It also probably got onto the AC harness plug, so I'll remove it, check for corrosion, clean with CRC QD electronics cleaner spray, blow out with compressed air, apply dielectric grease, and reseat the connectors. Sound good?
The battery that was in the car before I bought it was dead, so I replaced it with a new Duralast Gold battery. I cleared the codes several times and the P0560 has persisted, so I guess it has nothing to do with the old battery voltage then.
Any idea what the beeping from the engine fuse box could be? Bad relay perhaps?
After messing with the battery terminals, now the GlowShift water temperature gauge doesn't retain the set color after iginition off, ignition on. So something is definitely screwy with the wiring that could affect so many systems - electric fan, AC compressor, P1884, camshaft sensor error, etc.
The battery that was in the car before I bought it was dead, so I replaced it with a new Duralast Gold battery. I cleared the codes several times and the P0560 has persisted, so I guess it has nothing to do with the old battery voltage then.
Any idea what the beeping from the engine fuse box could be? Bad relay perhaps?
After messing with the battery terminals, now the GlowShift water temperature gauge doesn't retain the set color after iginition off, ignition on. So something is definitely screwy with the wiring that could affect so many systems - electric fan, AC compressor, P1884, camshaft sensor error, etc.
Last edited by jthomas; 05-11-2013 at 10:15 PM.
#14
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Update:
I removed the engine compartment fuse box and found coolant in some places still, even after I had blown it out with compressed air. I removed all fuses, fusible links, and relays. Cleaned everything with CRC QD Electronics cleaner, including all multi-plugs on the bottom of the fuse box. I cleaned blades of all the relays with cotton swabs as there was some white powdery build-up on several of the blades, not much, but enough for me to want to clean them off. Everything was then blown with compressed air.
I then made a test cable and checked the function of each relay in the engine compartment fuse box - all passed and clicked when exposed to 12 V across smaller blades. Then I would check for continuity on the larger blades with 12V still applied to the relay - again, ALL PASSED. I also checked continuity of ALL fuses and fusible links --> ALL PASSED.
Then I reinstalled everything after a coating of CRC Di-Electric Grease was applied to multi-plugs on the bottom of the fuse box. I also cleaned the AC Compressor plug and applied grease. NO DIFFERENCE.
I started the car and it again died immediately. I even got a NEW CODE. I am still having issues with a single honk when I got to lock the doors and the doors are not locking. Red alarm blinking light isn't on either. I am still hearing a faint beeping from the engine fuse box even when off.
P0102 --> MAF Sensor Malfunction.
So now it is off the to Engine ECM. How do I check the 12-13V supply to the transformer and the 5-6V supply to the ECM with my multimeter?
I removed the engine compartment fuse box and found coolant in some places still, even after I had blown it out with compressed air. I removed all fuses, fusible links, and relays. Cleaned everything with CRC QD Electronics cleaner, including all multi-plugs on the bottom of the fuse box. I cleaned blades of all the relays with cotton swabs as there was some white powdery build-up on several of the blades, not much, but enough for me to want to clean them off. Everything was then blown with compressed air.
I then made a test cable and checked the function of each relay in the engine compartment fuse box - all passed and clicked when exposed to 12 V across smaller blades. Then I would check for continuity on the larger blades with 12V still applied to the relay - again, ALL PASSED. I also checked continuity of ALL fuses and fusible links --> ALL PASSED.
Then I reinstalled everything after a coating of CRC Di-Electric Grease was applied to multi-plugs on the bottom of the fuse box. I also cleaned the AC Compressor plug and applied grease. NO DIFFERENCE.
I started the car and it again died immediately. I even got a NEW CODE. I am still having issues with a single honk when I got to lock the doors and the doors are not locking. Red alarm blinking light isn't on either. I am still hearing a faint beeping from the engine fuse box even when off.
P0102 --> MAF Sensor Malfunction.
So now it is off the to Engine ECM. How do I check the 12-13V supply to the transformer and the 5-6V supply to the ECM with my multimeter?
Last edited by jthomas; 05-12-2013 at 02:53 PM.
#15
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Just pulled the ECM and don't see any evidence of corrosion. Does anyone know how to test the 12-13V going to the ECM transformer and the 5-6V going into the ECM?
Some pictures from today:
Removed 2 plugs from top of engine compartment fuse box - see some leftover coolant -
=================================
Bottom of fuse box multi-pligs, only saw green corrosion on 2 of them.
=================================
Corrosion pics of the bottom of the engine fuse box
=================================
Cleaning Supplies + Fuse Box out of car
=================================
Relays removed, see the coolant?
=================================
All fuses, fusible links, and tools (T25, T45, fuse puller)
=================================
Corrosion on relay
=================================
Relay cleaned up
=================================
Testing Continuity of all relays, all of them passed with 12V applied and with multimeter
================================
All fuses back in box
================================
Di-electric grease on connectors
================================
Re-installed underhood
================================
Removing ECM - (2) 10mm nuts, large flathead screwdrive for trim panel, panel popper tool
================================
ECM Connections - I don't see any corrosion at all
Thanks for looking
Some pictures from today:
Removed 2 plugs from top of engine compartment fuse box - see some leftover coolant -
=================================
Bottom of fuse box multi-pligs, only saw green corrosion on 2 of them.
=================================
Corrosion pics of the bottom of the engine fuse box
=================================
Cleaning Supplies + Fuse Box out of car
=================================
Relays removed, see the coolant?
=================================
All fuses, fusible links, and tools (T25, T45, fuse puller)
=================================
Corrosion on relay
=================================
Relay cleaned up
=================================
Testing Continuity of all relays, all of them passed with 12V applied and with multimeter
================================
All fuses back in box
================================
Di-electric grease on connectors
================================
Re-installed underhood
================================
Removing ECM - (2) 10mm nuts, large flathead screwdrive for trim panel, panel popper tool
================================
ECM Connections - I don't see any corrosion at all
Thanks for looking
#16
#17
Relay main applies battery power thru fuse 2 under hood to run the MAF. No volts at fuse 2 when key in position 2 would be a clue.
ECU gets 24 hour battery from fuse 12 in same box. Pin 7 of ECU 634 connector.
ECU gets switched battery from fuse 24 under dash when key is turned. Pin 1 of connector 634.
ECU gets switched battery from same relay that turns on battery to injectors - pin 8 of connector 634.
See page 307 and 308 in the RAVE workshop manual.
ECU gets 24 hour battery from fuse 12 in same box. Pin 7 of ECU 634 connector.
ECU gets switched battery from fuse 24 under dash when key is turned. Pin 1 of connector 634.
ECU gets switched battery from same relay that turns on battery to injectors - pin 8 of connector 634.
See page 307 and 308 in the RAVE workshop manual.
#18
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Relay main applies battery power thru fuse 2 under hood to run the MAF. No volts at fuse 2 when key in position 2 would be a clue.
ECU gets 24 hour battery from fuse 12 in same box. Pin 7 of ECU 634 connector.
ECU gets switched battery from fuse 24 under dash when key is turned. Pin 1 of connector 634.
ECU gets switched battery from same relay that turns on battery to injectors - pin 8 of connector 634.
See page 307 and 308 in the RAVE workshop manual.
ECU gets 24 hour battery from fuse 12 in same box. Pin 7 of ECU 634 connector.
ECU gets switched battery from fuse 24 under dash when key is turned. Pin 1 of connector 634.
ECU gets switched battery from same relay that turns on battery to injectors - pin 8 of connector 634.
See page 307 and 308 in the RAVE workshop manual.
#19
You can, and it may be safer for the ECU. Think of the schematics as road maps of old, when they were free and the guy pumped your gas. Before GPS became popular. Follow the lines from one point to another. Tiny numbers at end (C0234-5) are the connector and pin number. In the Electrical Library the connectors are shown, with color photos of location.
But without the ECU operating a large number of relays won't switch.
But without the ECU operating a large number of relays won't switch.
#20
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Here are my testing results with the ECU/ECM out of the car.
Battery Voltage at Battery Posts - 12.29V
- Fuse 2 Underhood Engine Fuse Box --> 12.29V key off, 12.29V Key Position #2 --> Power to MAF
- Pin 7 of Connector 0634 --> 12.29V key off, 12.29V Key Position #2 --> Permanent 12V ECU Battery Supply
- Pin 1 of Connector 0634 --> 0V key off, 12.15V Key Position #2 --> Ignition Position #2 Signal Input to ECU
- Pin 8 of Connector 0634 --> 12.28V key off, 12.19V Key Position #2 --> Switched Positive Relay, doesn't appear switched
- Pin 4, 5, 6 of Connector 0634 --> 0V key off, 0V Key Position #2 --> Chassis, Fuel Injectors, and Power Stage Earths/Grounds
- Pin 7 of Connector 0636 --> 10.83V key off, 10.73V Key position #2 --> MAF 5V Supply -- Why is it 10V then???
- Pin 10 of Connector 0636 -> 0V key off, 0V key position #2 --> Throttle Position sensor 5V Supply --> Why is it 0V then?
- Pin 17 of Connector 0636 -> 0V key off, 0V key position #2 --> Camshaft Sensor Ground
- Pin 5 of Connector 0638 --> 0V key off, 0V key position #2 --> Ignition Coil Ground
Observations:
-Testing of 0634-1 tests OK as it has 0V when key off, 12V when key positition #2, so there is no confusion to the ECU about what the key is doing.
-Testing of 0634-4, 0634-5, and 0634-6 read 0V which is GOOD because these are chassis, fuel injector, and power stage grounds to the ECU.
-Testing of 0634-7 shows good permanent 12V supply to ECU when key is off AND in key position #2. I don't understand then why ECU is throwing code P0536 of low engine voltage below 2.55 V.
-Testing of 0636-7 is BAD MAF??? It is over 10V in both key off and key position #2 and should be only 5V supplied to the MAF. Is this logic sound?
-Testing of 0636-17 shows good ground for Camshaft Sensor (CMP).
-Testing of 0638-5 shows good ground for ignition coil.
-Fuse 2 has voltage when key off/out - is this normal.
-Fuses #7 and #8 in underhood fuse box have no voltage in key off or key position #2. These are 40 amp fuses and the fuse box lid has a picture of reading a manual. Nevermind, these are for the heated front windshield - each side of the windshield has a heating element with separate fuses.
After reading more of the RAVE, I am thinking P1536, relating to the AC compressor, could have been tripped by an open circuit of the relay #11 in the underhood fuse box because it was wet.
Also, the issue with the cooling fan turning on randomly and staying on after the key was out, could have been attributed to a wet connector #0570 (the grey plug in the underhood fuse box) or wet Relay #4.
In regards to the P0102 --> Low MAF signal, could this be due to me slamming the gas pedal when starting the car to see if it would die at high RPM? Was the MAF not reacting quick enough to my flooring it? BUT, I read in the RAVE that a bad MAF can create a stalling after starting issue. So how do I test the MAF? Is there a concern that the 5V supply to the ECU is showing up as 10.83V?
Again, thanks for reading this.
Battery Voltage at Battery Posts - 12.29V
- Fuse 2 Underhood Engine Fuse Box --> 12.29V key off, 12.29V Key Position #2 --> Power to MAF
- Pin 7 of Connector 0634 --> 12.29V key off, 12.29V Key Position #2 --> Permanent 12V ECU Battery Supply
- Pin 1 of Connector 0634 --> 0V key off, 12.15V Key Position #2 --> Ignition Position #2 Signal Input to ECU
- Pin 8 of Connector 0634 --> 12.28V key off, 12.19V Key Position #2 --> Switched Positive Relay, doesn't appear switched
- Pin 4, 5, 6 of Connector 0634 --> 0V key off, 0V Key Position #2 --> Chassis, Fuel Injectors, and Power Stage Earths/Grounds
- Pin 7 of Connector 0636 --> 10.83V key off, 10.73V Key position #2 --> MAF 5V Supply -- Why is it 10V then???
- Pin 10 of Connector 0636 -> 0V key off, 0V key position #2 --> Throttle Position sensor 5V Supply --> Why is it 0V then?
- Pin 17 of Connector 0636 -> 0V key off, 0V key position #2 --> Camshaft Sensor Ground
- Pin 5 of Connector 0638 --> 0V key off, 0V key position #2 --> Ignition Coil Ground
Observations:
-Testing of 0634-1 tests OK as it has 0V when key off, 12V when key positition #2, so there is no confusion to the ECU about what the key is doing.
-Testing of 0634-4, 0634-5, and 0634-6 read 0V which is GOOD because these are chassis, fuel injector, and power stage grounds to the ECU.
-Testing of 0634-7 shows good permanent 12V supply to ECU when key is off AND in key position #2. I don't understand then why ECU is throwing code P0536 of low engine voltage below 2.55 V.
-Testing of 0636-7 is BAD MAF??? It is over 10V in both key off and key position #2 and should be only 5V supplied to the MAF. Is this logic sound?
-Testing of 0636-17 shows good ground for Camshaft Sensor (CMP).
-Testing of 0638-5 shows good ground for ignition coil.
-Fuse 2 has voltage when key off/out - is this normal.
-Fuses #7 and #8 in underhood fuse box have no voltage in key off or key position #2. These are 40 amp fuses and the fuse box lid has a picture of reading a manual. Nevermind, these are for the heated front windshield - each side of the windshield has a heating element with separate fuses.
After reading more of the RAVE, I am thinking P1536, relating to the AC compressor, could have been tripped by an open circuit of the relay #11 in the underhood fuse box because it was wet.
Also, the issue with the cooling fan turning on randomly and staying on after the key was out, could have been attributed to a wet connector #0570 (the grey plug in the underhood fuse box) or wet Relay #4.
In regards to the P0102 --> Low MAF signal, could this be due to me slamming the gas pedal when starting the car to see if it would die at high RPM? Was the MAF not reacting quick enough to my flooring it? BUT, I read in the RAVE that a bad MAF can create a stalling after starting issue. So how do I test the MAF? Is there a concern that the 5V supply to the ECU is showing up as 10.83V?
Again, thanks for reading this.
Last edited by jthomas; 05-13-2013 at 02:48 PM.