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air suspension - but not what you think!

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Old Mar 5, 2015 | 04:11 PM
  #1  
robL's Avatar
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Default air suspension - but not what you think!

Hi guys,

First post here on Land Rover Forums and I'd like to start with a big thanks for all the insight my wife and I have gotten from reading posts here that helped us out with our recently-acquired 2003 D2 SE.

Something I came across recently was the idea of how to deal with increased load on the back end, specifically a powered wheelchair lift loaded up with a powerchair, mounted on a hitch extension to keep the spare tire mounted to the door (so loading a manual wheelchair in the back would not be a problem). The extra weight dropped the tail down noticeably although not dangerously.

I know our D2 needs new shocks, which got me thinking about the air shocks that I used to have in a passenger car used to pull a big camping trailer.

All I find about air shocks for D2s is how to remove the original equipment parts and replace with regular shocks and coil springs, which makes sense considering the cost of the OE parts. But I am looking to do the opposite of that.

A little bit of cross-referencing from the Monroe catalog (very useful as they give all the specs for the products) brought me to their Max Air part number MA757:

MONROE SHOCKS & STRUTS :: e-Catalog

Compressed length, max length, and weight rating are all comparable to their standard direct-fit rear shock. The difference is in the mounting ends; the D2 uses 12mm bolts top and bottom, the Monroe Max Air uses 1/2" at one and and 11/16" at the other. If the wider body will fit in the Rover's shock area, I can fabricate adapter sleeves to make the shock work with the standard Rover hardware.

The shocks are a typical air shock design, a line out of each one into a T-fitting and then to a standard air valve, same as a tire. The cheap and easy installation is to drill a hole on the underside of the bumper and inflate as needed with an air pump. The more expensive solution (which I have for the airbags in my trailer-hauling F350) is a dash-mounted pod with a pressure gauge, on-board pump switch, and a bleed button. The control system alone is about $150.

Here's the best news about the shocks; retail price on these is about $72 per pair. Yes, PAIR. That's cheaper than most standard economy shocks.

Gabriel also makes a comparable part and the price is similar.

If I do go ahead with this, I'll post pics and results.

- Rob
 
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Old Mar 5, 2015 | 04:31 PM
  #2  
Merlin390's Avatar
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You might be able to find a OEM (used) on board air compressor from a wrecked DII and just wire in a switch to control it. I kept my air ride and actually tapped into the lines going to the air springs to utilize my suspension compressor as an air compressor.
 
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Old Mar 5, 2015 | 08:06 PM
  #3  
EstorilM's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Merlin390
You might be able to find a OEM (used) on board air compressor from a wrecked DII and just wire in a switch to control it. I kept my air ride and actually tapped into the lines going to the air springs to utilize my suspension compressor as an air compressor.
Negative. Sounds like your ride was an OE SLS vehicle, and the OP may have a non-OE SLS vehicle.

Ironically OP (sounds like) ended up with one of the most capable self-leveling suspension vehicles first designed, in a situation that requires it more than 90% of average consumers, but your vehicle wasn't fitted OE.

Forget all the shock measurements and crap. You need a history lesson in the disco (no offense) this beast was developed almost 20 years before you laid your paws on it. LR made many mistakes when they tried to market it to the US and one of those was the interior size / payload / seating arrangement VERSUS the famous land rover offroad abilities. Plus eventually they needed 7 PAX to sell vehicles and now the only place to do it was behind the rear axle. Big no-no in the physics department for a vehicle with with payload and tow ratings already! The end result was that they kept the wheelbase nearly the same BUT increased the length of the vehicle substantially resulting in significant leverage on the rear suspension. = SLS required and ALL subsequent LR vehicles FWIW use it (save magnetic stuff in evoques etc, ) I believe the factory tire inflation for my 99' 7 passenger SLS DII is 46PSI while the front is 33PSI. That's cray cray and tells you the kind of forces the vehicle was encountering from the factory. Personally I think it's kinda cool though.

Good news is that essentially your vehicle is "made" for the kinda stuff you're trying to do, it just wasn't fitted OE with it.

You'll have to configure your SLABS ECU to enable SLS operation and honestly I have no idea if the harness on your vehicle has plugs for the height sensors or what, but that's the critical input # for the SLABS ECU to determine how far to inflate the RR and RL airbags.

I bought my '99 as a POS with dead compressor and a bicycle tire pump fitting mounted to the tow hitch to OE leaking springs from some Mexican gents in Long Island (no oke) $3500 cash. First Rover ever (now on my 3rd) but still have this one.

Replaced with Arnott lifetime springs, confirmed dead compressor and decided to use a Viair compressor. After a couple weeks of annoying on/off operation as the factory system uses (highly unusual in OE vehicle applications as most have an air tank) I got a 90s Range Rover air tank and put it behind the rear seats. Hooked a pressure switch to tank and compressor now keeps it at 130 PSI. Now when SLABS ECU commands raise of SLS it turns on air compressor but actually the 12v signal simply opens an air solenoid from the tank (this is how all other air suspension OE systems and other Rovers work).

Works amazingly well and I've had no problems except in extreme cold (near 0 deg F) when excess moisture in lines / solenoids will freeze the system and prevent tank inflation, but I still went to work just fine, because I installed the digital pressure gauge I KNEW I was okay which is a major condense booster with this system.

During the retrofit I installed two pressure sending units; one on the tank side and one on one of the suspension sides, a simple digital pressure gauge now tells me tank pressure and suspension pressure (changes with fuel load, payload, tow loading, etc).

Considering what I paid for this thing, I nearly installed BETTER SLS operation for less than what it would cost to install a retrofit kit, and I bought the SLS keyfob from Land Rover that allows raise and lower operation from outside the vehicle for trailer hitching/unhitching. Even my LR3 doesn't let me do this (without flashers on and other stupid stuff).


For the money I think you got the right vehicle, but I'm not sure about the options. If you plan on keeping it then doing all my retrofits will help you out for the next 10yr or so, but otherwise you'd be better off with a 00-02 SLS DII for the $$.

FWIW I've attached 15klb 40' bumper pull trailers to a Range Rover Sport with air suspension, and many boats and trailers to my DII.... there's nothing they can't raise. For your requirements the factory or any aftermarket system would be perfect, you've just gotta get your hands on a Disco fitted with said system.
 

Last edited by EstorilM; Mar 5, 2015 at 08:15 PM.
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Old Mar 5, 2015 | 10:06 PM
  #4  
Frank4's Avatar
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Originally Posted by EstorilM
Negative. Sounds like your ride was an OE SLS vehicle, and the OP may have a non-OE SLS vehicle.

Ironically OP (sounds like) ended up with one of the most capable self-leveling suspension vehicles first designed, in a situation that requires it more than 90% of average consumers, but your vehicle wasn't fitted OE.

Forget all the shock measurements and crap. You need a history lesson in the disco (no offense) this beast was developed almost 20 years before you laid your paws on it. LR made many mistakes when they tried to market it to the US and one of those was the interior size / payload / seating arrangement VERSUS the famous land rover offroad abilities. Plus eventually they needed 7 PAX to sell vehicles and now the only place to do it was behind the rear axle. Big no-no in the physics department for a vehicle with with payload and tow ratings already! The end result was that they kept the wheelbase nearly the same BUT increased the length of the vehicle substantially resulting in significant leverage on the rear suspension. = SLS required and ALL subsequent LR vehicles FWIW use it (save magnetic stuff in evoques etc, ) I believe the factory tire inflation for my 99' 7 passenger SLS DII is 46PSI while the front is 33PSI. That's cray cray and tells you the kind of forces the vehicle was encountering from the factory. Personally I think it's kinda cool though.

Good news is that essentially your vehicle is "made" for the kinda stuff you're trying to do, it just wasn't fitted OE with it.

You'll have to configure your SLABS ECU to enable SLS operation and honestly I have no idea if the harness on your vehicle has plugs for the height sensors or what, but that's the critical input # for the SLABS ECU to determine how far to inflate the RR and RL airbags.

I bought my '99 as a POS with dead compressor and a bicycle tire pump fitting mounted to the tow hitch to OE leaking springs from some Mexican gents in Long Island (no oke) $3500 cash. First Rover ever (now on my 3rd) but still have this one.

Replaced with Arnott lifetime springs, confirmed dead compressor and decided to use a Viair compressor. After a couple weeks of annoying on/off operation as the factory system uses (highly unusual in OE vehicle applications as most have an air tank) I got a 90s Range Rover air tank and put it behind the rear seats. Hooked a pressure switch to tank and compressor now keeps it at 130 PSI. Now when SLABS ECU commands raise of SLS it turns on air compressor but actually the 12v signal simply opens an air solenoid from the tank (this is how all other air suspension OE systems and other Rovers work).

Works amazingly well and I've had no problems except in extreme cold (near 0 deg F) when excess moisture in lines / solenoids will freeze the system and prevent tank inflation, but I still went to work just fine, because I installed the digital pressure gauge I KNEW I was okay which is a major condense booster with this system.

During the retrofit I installed two pressure sending units; one on the tank side and one on one of the suspension sides, a simple digital pressure gauge now tells me tank pressure and suspension pressure (changes with fuel load, payload, tow loading, etc).

Considering what I paid for this thing, I nearly installed BETTER SLS operation for less than what it would cost to install a retrofit kit, and I bought the SLS keyfob from Land Rover that allows raise and lower operation from outside the vehicle for trailer hitching/unhitching. Even my LR3 doesn't let me do this (without flashers on and other stupid stuff).


For the money I think you got the right vehicle, but I'm not sure about the options. If you plan on keeping it then doing all my retrofits will help you out for the next 10yr or so, but otherwise you'd be better off with a 00-02 SLS DII for the $$.

FWIW I've attached 15klb 40' bumper pull trailers to a Range Rover Sport with air suspension, and many boats and trailers to my DII.... there's nothing they can't raise. For your requirements the factory or any aftermarket system would be perfect, you've just gotta get your hands on a Disco fitted with said system.
Sweet Jesus, how'd you like that history lesson? This is a perfect example of what we call a "WWNTI", Won't Work Never Tried It. Just put your air shocks on your truck and let us know how it turns out. The rover SLS system is garbage and everyone knows it. The thought of fitting a non SLS truck with new or used parts is retarded as one or more components WILL FAIL. I won't even go into how terrible an idea it is to buy a rover with SLS. Just do your thing man. I am interested in hearing what you find out.
 
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Old Mar 6, 2015 | 05:49 AM
  #5  
drowssap's Avatar
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sorry; but shocks do not hold your truck up your springs do. shock only damper the ride.
If you plan on air shocks raising the back of the truck, do yourself a favor and just cut 2 piece of 2x4 and install them, it will ride the same.

you should be looking into a progressively wound springs, that will take the weight when loaded and still give a comfortable ride when not.

a cheaper solution maybe to install 7 passenger rear spring, if you get them in a bone yard they will have two purple stripes i believe.
 

Last edited by drowssap; Mar 6, 2015 at 07:43 AM.
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Old Mar 6, 2015 | 08:35 AM
  #6  
robL's Avatar
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EstorilM, thanks for the info and your experience. Unfortunately, adding in a tank behind the rear seats is a no-go, I need the space as explained earlier. I also don't intend on towing much, if at all, that's what my F350 was born to do. Besides that, as you mentioned, the complication involved means that the time and cost involved equals just buying one with SLS in the first place. I've got SLS on two other vehicles, and the expense is rather unattractive. As is obvious, once past a certain age, refurbing such a vehicle's SLS is often equal to the total value of the vehicle. Nevertheless, ping me if you have any BMW questions about your M3.

Frank4, K.I.S.S. is the plan. I will post updates.

drowssap; in a conventional system without significant load variation, you are correct - springs maintain ride height, dampers control spring compression/extension speed and damp bounce frequency. However, in a system with load variation, height-adjusting shocks do indeed become part of the height-control system. The QED here is that is exactly what LR and other manufacturers with similar systems do. Our D2 is not going to be permanently loaded with an extra 350lbs hanging 14" off the back bumper, that's a transient situation. Wheelchair won't always be mounted, and I've got plans for a motorized interior lift for the manual chair to give my wife her independence.

Thanks again for all your input!
 
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Old Jun 23, 2015 | 08:59 AM
  #7  
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A few months have passed and other things have kept me from working on this project... but now I'm moving ahead.

Ordered and received the Monroe MA-757 air shocks and the Air Lift pump/gauge/switch system #25804.

Monroe MA-757:



Air Lift 25804:



Upper link on the Monroe is 1/2", standard LR is 12mm. I'm not worrying about .7mm and there's even a chance that a 1/2" bolt will fit the mounting points on the Disco.

Bottom link is larger at 11/16", so I knew I would have to make an adapter tube. The plan was simply steel tube stock of the correct ID and OD, cut to the bushing 1-3/4" LR width which is just over 1/2" wider than the Monroe/Chrysler width of 1-9/16", and the additional space on either side of the bushing taken up with washers with ID of the tube so they would fit over.

And that's where my luck ran out.

A closer look at the Disco's shock mounting points showed the top eye and bottom eye are rotated 90° to each other and the Monroe air shock's eyes are in the same plane. As it's an air shock, the ends cannot twist relative to each other. Uh-oh.

Go and try to find a 90° shock mount adapter piece. Go and Google it, I'll wait.

Haven't found it yet? Yeah, not exactly a common item needed. There are post to cleavis adapters, cleavis extenders, all sorts of stuff that wouldn't work at all without permanently modifying something on my Disco that I had no interest in chopping up. Argh.

Then I found this:


It's designed for Isuzu Troopers which normally have an oddball shock mounting size, the bracket lets them fit more mainstream shocks with standard hardware sizes. Luckily for me, part of that process is a 90° rotation. It's the only regularly-available part of it's type that I found. It's available exclusively from the nice guys at Independent4X: Isuzu Trooper Shock Conversion Bracket

Here's what I was looking at making work all together for the lower shock mount points:

MA-757 Loop Bushing Mount - 11/16" Bushing ID X 1-9/16" Bushing OAL

LAND ROVER Loop Bushing& Sleeve Mount - 12MM Sleeve ID X 1-3/4" Sleeve OAL

ISUZU Loop Bushing Mount - 3/4" Bushing ID X 1-9/16" Bushing OAL

I'd need an adapter tube from 3/4" to 12mm to mount the Independent4X bracket to the Discovery lower mount. Simple enough, 3/4" OD stainless steel tube with 0.120" wall thickness from Mcaster-Carr, cut to 1-3/4" length:

McMaster-Carr

The final result (pardon the crudeness, I cut this one by hand and finished it with a grinding wheel):



Perfect fit in the 90° adapter:



Next I'd need a similar tube for the top part of the 90° adapter adapter to the Monroe MA-757. The initial piece I made was wrong simply due to my mis-reading of my own notes. New material is being delivered today from McMaster, I ordered .750" OD, .095" wall thickness and also .120" wall thickness to see which is a better fit to the 1/2" or 12mm bolt that I will use. Astute readers will note that .750" is very slightly bigger than 11/16", but as the Monroe has a large soft urethane bushing, I decided that the sleeve being slightly tight was better than loose, as I've already got some additive tolerances here with the additional connections set.

The Monroe MA-757 lower bushing:



Once I get the steel bushing liner/adapter done, there's still one small problem; the bushings have a significant convex outer curve that makes them just a bit too tight to squeeze into the 90° adapter:



Looks like I'll have to shave off a tiny bit of material with a razor. I considered exploring alternate aftermarket bushings of the right OD and width and removing the Monroe bushing, but I think the effort of modification versus removal/replacement will be about the same.

At this point, I'll make the new adapters today and dry-fit it all together. The actual diving-in part of pulling the original shocks may have to wait until Friday or the weekend. Then the fun part of running airline tube up to the center console and mounting the Air Lift control panel inside the armrest cubby where my wife wants it, she likes everything to be nice and stealthy.

Also possible on the future agenda is a reservoir air tank for rapid inflation instead of just relying on the Air Lift pump. Looking at 3 gallon tanks that I can mount under the frame with an electronic solenoid valve to alternate between inflating the tank from the pump and inflating the shocks from the tank, all while leaving the pump to shocks connection intact as a failsafe. Fairly simple, just more stuff to bolt in and trying to do it on a reasonable budget.

Updates to follow.
 
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Old Jun 24, 2015 | 12:28 AM
  #8  
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Nice. Glad you stuck to your plan. Please post your results!
 
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Old Jun 25, 2015 | 12:05 PM
  #9  
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Got my new material in today for the Independent4X bracket to the Monroe lower shock eye: 4130 Alloy Steel Round Tube, .750" OD, .120" Wall Thickness. I forgot how hard it is to cut 4130 by hand, whizzer wheel to the rescue.

McMaster-Carr



Now with all pieces in place, I'll pull the shocks of the Disco either tomorrow evening or this weekend and put it all together.
 
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