It looks like the SKP front cover I bought from RockAuto wasn't quite right - dowel pin holes just aren't lining up and I'm going to order the one AB has since they have a good reputation and it won't take long to get the part. Someone had linked the SKP part when I posted about the broken timing cover.

I just have a few questions:

Why do the oil pump gears need to be packed with petroleum jelly and why is it that manufacturers don't prepare the gears somehow? SKP had used Loctite on the screws on the plate that covers the gears and I'm assuming the others ship them the same way. It just seems like they should prepare it or at least not put the plate on with thread locker. Just wondering about this.

If I get the AB cover, is it important to remove their seal and use a Corteco seal, or is their seal good? Someone told me to do that a while ago and I'm sure the Corteco seal is good, but is the AB seal bad? I don't know which manufacturer makes the cover they carry, but it says "Hobourn" on it in the product image on their site. I'm guessing others have installed these (because of AB being commonly used as a supplier) and they've fit as expected unlike the SKP cover, which wasn't fitting, even after hitting it pretty hard with a rubber mallet until it was clear something was wrong. I cleaned everything really well and feel like I did tons of wiggling to get the part lined up properly - it wasn't going on like I think it should have. The original cover took some effort to remove, but just some wiggling and pulling - it didn't seem unreasonable. Since I'm new to this, it wasn't clear at first if the problem was my method or the part itself, but I'm pretty sure it's the part. I think I've got myself through the hardest parts of this job at this point and it shouldn't be too bad doing the rest.

Also, I don't think I'll be able to return the SKP part - would someone here will be able to use it? Whatever machining might be required (or not?) isn't something I can manage and I have way too much going on to try to get into anything like that.

Any advice to remove black RTV? I used that on the oil pressure sensor in the timing cover. This is really important since I want to recover the sensor from the SKP cover I'd put it into, but I don't know if heat from a heat gun is going to destroy it. I could try to just loosen the brass adapter, clean the silicone and install it in the new one, but I might break something.

Any input is appreciated - really pissed this got delayed again, but hopefully it won't be too long until I get the vehicle down off the jack stands and start reconnecting hoses, installing the inline thermostat, removing the intake manifold to replace the coil packs and wires, etc.

Thanks again everyone

 

So, my understanding of the petroleum jelly packing is to prime up and lubricate the dry oil gears.

I am not trying to patronize you here but the idea of pumps is to take something from low pressure to high pressure. Generally speaking, pumps depending on the type does so by creating a differential pressure of the ejecting liquid out of the high pressure out, thus creating a suction or vacuum at the low pressure inlet.

Dry pump means no ejection. Look at how the gears are shaped they squeeze and rotate ejecting liquid as they rotate.

Fill it up good, try not to make a mess, and loctite the screws to secure the plate.

Those are Pozi screws. #3 Pozi I believe. Do not try to remove existing ones by hand if they have been tightened. What you are gonna want is a hand impact with a Pozi #3 bit on the end. Smack it with a hammer to break them free. I learned my lesson, stripped one like a fool testing the waters, and barely got it out.

As far as removing the oil pressure sensor with RTV, I am not so sure of removing the RTV but maybe try loosening the sensor and if just work it back and forth from tighten to loosen slowly until the stuff works its way out.

Seals. I cannot recall but I believe I used a genuine Seal for the front cover, and it hasn’t failed me yet. I would have to check my previous orders and I will but I am betting that some folks will say that either is fine and it depends on how its installed, and some will say to only use genuine. Seals I tend to get two as I have learned recently that a seal can get jacked up during installation real quick. I know that the one I installed was brown. corteco seals seems legit but I respect you request for verification. Let’s see if anyone has any comments.

Make sure to clean the mating surface of the block well. Get a plastic razor and scrap that block to ensure the previous gasket material and any RTV are removed. Strategically, add some extra RTV strategically to the corners of the water coolant passages to ensure leaks are sealed up.

While you are in there I would assess timing chain, and big sprocket and little sprocket for witness marks on the teeth, ie wear, and lack of tension in the chain… Rotate the block by rotating the crank in the correct direction until the “little square” on both the cam gear and crank gear are aligned. I am not a mechanic but if you rotate it the incorrect way the spark plugs will prevent it. The top gear square indicator will be at 6 o clock and the bottom gear square will be at 12 o clock.

Please verify this within the workshop manual before attempting. The only way to mess up the timing after aligning the markers is to rotate one of the gears when the timing chain is off. Pop off the bottom gear off and the chain will come with it. There is a notch that the crank gear (bottom gear) will align with so it’s not possible to mess up the installation when everything is aligned. Again, do not rotate anything once the timing chain is off.

if you decide to do the chain and gears get the genuine components as the aftermarket chains have been reported to be crap. As you install the chain on the gear the notched gear into the slot may feel as those it’s not aligned and not fitting in the slot, however, it tightens down into place once aligned. The gear can only be installed one way. Stick something to mechanically stop the rotation of the engine by wedging something sturdy into journal ends. I used a 2x4 held by a buddy allowing me to tighten it down.

There is a great write up on here outlining the oil sump removal, oil gear replacement, and timing chain. Search Land Rover Discovery 2 oil pump timing chain forums in google. Should pop up. If you haven’t read it already.

While you have the sump off, replace the o-ring for the Pick Up Tube. Oil up the new O-ring with oil before installing and gently roll/place the new one on. While you have access and because you already broke a closed cooling loop, I would assess replacing the o-ring on the elbow coolant outlet of the engine. I replace the elbow entirely as it was in rough shape, but at minimum if you already have the coolant elbow off, inspect the O-ring, and to be safe replace it. As mentioned previously, not only do I buy seals in pairs, I also buy o-rings in pairs. Another good O-ring to inspect is the oil filter adapter bolt on to the front cover. Make sure it’s in good shape and if you remove it verify it’s back on before bolting it up.

Specifically for the front cover gasket, I would also buy a back up gasket because if you’re like me and you accidentally fold, split, and separate the gasket you’ll end up RTV’in the two pieces gently together and praying it holds.

Use the “Right Stuff” chemically compatible approved coolant/oil black gasket maker. Not the one minute cure kind.

Once you are ready to put the cover on, make sure no wires and pinched and get it on the shaft and rotate it gently to find the sweet spot, bolt that bad boi on there, and tighten sequentially. I let it sit between rounds to not squish all the RTV out by giving it hell right away. Be wary of the pick up tube as well as it may require some maneuvering to install the cover.

I bolted the front cover bolts and immediately installed the oil sump. I am not sure if this is correct but if I were to do it over again I would allow the front cover to cure for a bit upon tightening of front cover bolts before final torquing to spec before the oil sump. Install the sump per the workshop manual and tighten in the correct order.

Allow the RTV to cure for the oil sump and front cover before filling and ripping at it with liquids. There really is no rush so make sure it’s liquid tight.

I just did all of this and in my inexperience was so stoked that everything was going right and forgot little things like that. The cure was sufficient but it could’ve waited for a little longer.

For an extra credit bonus, provided you got the schmeckles, would be to procure the updated german water pump, install it with the front cover off, complete your job and report back on the functionality of the improved german engineering. For educational purposes of course.

https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/pro...ery-water-pump

Good luck. Clean your stuff, keep track of your bolts, and take your time. It wasn’t too bad a job. Don’t forget to add oire, and coolant before giving it hell. Pull your fuel pump relay and give it a couple two three cranks and holds to prime it up. Mine fired right up and I was following the write up that I mentioned.

Check your oil pressure, and leaks.

 

Thank you, I really appreciate all the input.

I didn't realize there was an o-ring in that coolant elbow, but I think it makes sense to replace it. I'll have to read the manual to see if that o-ring needs to be greased or if that surface needs any sealant on it as well.

I've got a bit of experience with an impact screwdriver from the two timing covers I've dealt with. I'm wondering why manufacturers don't prepare the oil pumps before they lock the plate down with Loctite on Posi screws. I inspected the old pump gears on the original (?) cover and they weren't broken but whatever. I also decided to replace the timing chain and chainwheels since it was recommended while there already. I used the $100 kit from Atlantic British and I'm pretty sure they're aftermarket parts, so hopefully they'll hold up. I hadn't seen warnings about aftermarket chains/wheels. I also inspected the camshaft bearings according to instructions - all five appeared to have stayed put, so I started putting things back together when I got stuck with the new front cover dowel hole problem.

I'll order AB's cover tomorrow if that's a good option - I figure their popularity means others have used the cover they sell and it's alright. Lucky 8 seems to have an AllMakes cover and I think another somewhat well-known parts dealer has a Britpart cover - I haven't heard anything about any of these covers being good or bad and they're all between $400-500, so I hope whatever I end up with is alright and I don't have some other problem with the block that's preventing the cover from being installed, but we'll see soon enough. I'll try to test fit it before doing anything else just in case.

About the Corteco seal, I think it's made in Germany and someone had said "remove the seal your timing cover came with and install that one," which I did, using some black RTV as well. I did the PCV mod a while ago too, which should help. I have a sleeve I'm going to install on the harmonic damper, which should also help since it has a ring from seal wear in it. I'm wondering if the Atlantic British (or AllMakes or Britpart) front cover seal is OK or if I should get another Corteco seal to install in it. I have no experience to go on here.

I have a bunch of new o-rings, like the ones for the pickup tube, camshaft sensor, oil filter adapter - someone said you can eliminate that part entirely and connect the filter right to the timing cover. I don't know if I have the courage to do that since I'm worried that adapter serves some kind of purpose that could affect oil pressure or proper filtration... I'm assuming that most oil o-rings get a bit of oil applied to them before installing like when installing an oil filter. I read the manual before doing things, but I like to check with everyone in case there are reasons to do things differently. I have the pickup tube removed (and cleaned - might've cleaned it too harshly with carb cleaner, but wanted to be sure it was clean - used brake cleaner after), so hopefully the timing cover goes on without the pickup tube in the way. When disassembling, first I removed the sump, then the pickup tube, then the front cover, so I figured the pickup tube doesn't need to go on the cover before reinstalling it.

I'm guessing you're using that upgraded water pump? If the timing cover is already on, is it a problem to install that water pump? The manual shows the water pump already on the front cover before installing the cover, so I guess that's actually how it's supposed to be done - it also allows you to torque the cover properly without waiting. I'm going to install the inline thermostat and I've been told that we don't want the engine to be too cool, so I'm wondering how they upgraded water pump and inline thermostat work together. Maybe someone can tell us? I bought a $50 eBay water pump (it has a 10 year warranty so I figured they must be alright), which I made the mistake of installing on the front cover that wasn't fitting onto the dowel pins. I used black RTV on the water pump gasket, but maybe I should have used red or black right stuff, including on the bolts. I was told red was good for cooling system applications. Hopefully black right stuff is good for both since the timing cover has those coolant ports that seem to be problematic - mine seems to have some corrosion in the area, which I'm hoping the silicone will handle. The upgraded pump is about one schmeckle ($148), so I'll have to see about that since I haven't heard of anyone using it yet, especially with the inline thermostat and I'm just not sure I'll even get running until knowing the SKP timing cover was machined slightly off or if it's something else...

I used the 2x4 block method to remove the crankshaft bolt too - I was worried, but with a 4' breaker bar, it was too easy for how nervous I was about doing that. I pulled all the spark plugs to make it easier to turn the engine smoothly, but pierced some ignition wire with ring nose pliers, so I'll be replacing the coils, wire and plugs as well. I had a recurring misfire code, so hopefully it'll be gone if I ever get this running again. I'll know if I'm screwed once the new cover arrives.

Thank you again - doing my best to keep organized with bolts in labeled bags, cleaned parts and basically doing this at a snail's pace, but at least it's getting done. I know there have to be lots of Rovers sitting around places that haven't been touched in years. Actually, I have another one of those... the '91 Range Rover. If I can get through the D2 and then some steering components (ball joints and some other worn out parts), I might have to make that dream come true as well.

 

Why wouldn't you be able to return it, especially if it's defective?

 

Yeah at $300 I would definitely return it. They will just charge you the shipping for the return of the defective part so like 12 bucks.

 

It’s been too long - the warranty claim system on rockauto’s site says it’s out of manufacturer warranty. It’s been just over 12 months. At the same time as all of this, I’ve been rebuilding a small place in the mountains I have, which is another story and got injured late in March, then further in July and it’s taking a while to heal, on top of regular work so another unfortunate thing happened with the cover going out of warranty.

 

I checked around about the seals, properly fitted seals installed on non marred shafts should be good to use regardless of brand. Nothing stood out.

I do not have the improved upgraded pump. However, since you already have a stock bolt on I would roll with that and the inline to see how the cooling system is operating.

The only thing I could see the upgraded pump impacting the inline cooling mod would be a higher flow rate and thus increasing the pressure pre closed tstat, and maybe increasing the overall pressure slightly once opened of the cooling system and potentially having the added benefit of heating up faster and once the tstat opens and the main recirc loop starts cooling the cooling and the rate at which thermal and pressure equilibrium are achieved would be faster. Probably negligible for pressure of the system but once the main loop is flowing, faster flow across the radiator means higher volume of liquid cooling. Upgrade it later. Learn the vehicle mechanically and operational, upgrade later after observing it’s behavior.

I dont see why you couldn’t install the water pump on the bench with the 6 shorter bolts first and then once the front cover is on bolt the water pump and timing on to the block. You had to take out the 3 longer bolts to get the front cover off anyway right? No harm there, save over tightening, but you are following the manual and the torque specs. I did mine in the bay with the radiator in. Wish I woulve taken it to the bench and did it all in one shot but alas. What’s a job worth doing if it aint worth doing twice.

I didn’t put any sealant on the orings for the heater pipe or coolant elbow. Just essentially wetted it with some coolant for some lubrication and installed properly. No leaks observed.

So with the inline mod recently done in my car, I installed oil pressure gauge, coolant temp, and coolant pressure gauge. For me I have a background in chemistry and was a manufacturing scientist for a large pharma company so when I started to look into the coolant pressure gauges, I kind of thought to myself… in my profession the monitoring of pump outlet pressure is an industry standard. It’s a qualitative method to identify performance, sudden drops in pressure as a result of leaks, and it’s generally helpful information. I haven’t seen anyone on here do it so I decided to rig up a coolant pressure gauge. There are tons of instances and reasons to monitor the oil pressure, so why not try the coolant system. It’s a closed loop, recirculating heat transfer fluid via pump it has to have an optimal pressure at a given temp. I sourced the coolant pressure gauge from glowshift and swapped the top plastic radiator to expansion tank with transmission hose, and spliced into it right by the MAF. Routed the remaining hose under the throttle body across the bay to the tank.

I should do a write up for my observations but for now this is what I have noticed, monitoring the operational pressure of the cooling system in tandem with temperature of the coolant is beneficial in verifying the efficacy of the cooling system specific to the truck.

All of this is to say, make sure you don’t have any leaks, and the only way to verify that is to observe the leak physically or monitor the pressure. That will get you the most out of the inline mod in my opinion.

Replace hose clamps the on the heater core return and supply. Hose clamps didn’t hold and sucked to install and remove. I used genuine spring clamps.

 

I had a cracked timing cover with my '04 and the atlantic british part was a direct fit. I also went with the Flowkooler water pump and it's night and day cooler with the inline thermostat. It's worth a few extra bucks!!

 

FYI the AB unit = same manufacturer as the OEM unit.

 

@neuropathy Have you seen the bulletin in this thread below? Some 2003 models within a certain VIN spread had the dowels miss-placed on the engine block causing oil pump failures. They state the only cure is engine replacement. None of the available timing covers will fit those particular 4.6 engines.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...n-range-32046/