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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,794
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From: dallas texas
cool thank you. i guess by the time i figure the cost of 12 magnums, to protect my arms....I'll stay away from those.
on xspring.....d1/d2 springs diameters same but d2 has the catch tab, right? so do you think they will work on either or is it truck specific? because of the seat
on xspring.....d1/d2 springs diameters same but d2 has the catch tab, right? so do you think they will work on either or is it truck specific? because of the seat
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 32
From: Austin, TX
Interesting read about all this from Justin on Expedition Portal. The below is pasted text.
Take it for what it is worth
Springs
Compression springs are made to function in "compression", not "extension".
They are coiled in a particular way so that they will "resist" compression in either a Linear, or Progressive manner.
The purpose of the spring is to resist the sprung mass of a vehicle's body (and all the goodies on it) from its natural tendency to go down towards earth.
Compression springs do not "like" to be "extended" beyond their free unloaded total length, this is because it can damage their inherent compression rating and it's coil elasticity.
Springs part B
Linear springs resist the forces acting on them in a linear/constant manner.
Progressive springs become progressively stiffer as forces act on them.
My opinion about the two
The progressive springs' initial coils will resist "whimsically" for the delight of on-road comfort but to detriment of off-road performance. Progressive springs are not so much designed for off-road but more for a "limousine ride" on-road. With a Land Rover weighing around 3 tons and running on 33 in plus tires I want it to perform in a linear/constant/predictable fashion, especially off camber.
Retaining
If you want to retain an axle from extending beyond what you desire it to do, just use a strap to hold the axle from going any farther then you like.
Shocks
Some shock absorbers are large enough and strong enough that they will perform the function of retaining the axle. This is not to difficult in the case of a relatively light rover axle, but if they where not designed to do so you run the risk of over extending the shock or (Bottoming it out)
Cones
Because of space constraints in the Rover wheel wells it is often useful and without many downsides, to use spring cones to gain more wheel travel. When used in combination with long travel extended shocks. This will give you more flexibility with out building a coil over system for you truck.
Putting it all together
The "sprung" mass of the vehicle will not compress the springs when the axle articulates in the opposite direction. Imagine a teeter-totter in a kid's playground. As the axle falls down to look for more traction the opposite side compress more under the added weight. When the direction of inclination changes back again the shock absorbers will slow down the initial return of the axle also slowing body roll. Then the spring will come in contact with it's spring perch, and it will perform it's loyal duty as the compression spring and start to hold the body again.
A side note about Traction
The old constant about traction is you can only put down on the ground as much torque as the terrain's available traction factor. If the factor is for example 0.1(Ice), you can have the truck fully locked, but the terrain will allow for only so much torque, or momentum, to be applied before the contact between tire and terrain will fail, resulting in slipping. So by keeping all the tires on the ground you are able to increase your traction patch
Take it for what it is worth
Springs
Compression springs are made to function in "compression", not "extension".
They are coiled in a particular way so that they will "resist" compression in either a Linear, or Progressive manner.
The purpose of the spring is to resist the sprung mass of a vehicle's body (and all the goodies on it) from its natural tendency to go down towards earth.
Compression springs do not "like" to be "extended" beyond their free unloaded total length, this is because it can damage their inherent compression rating and it's coil elasticity.
Springs part B
Linear springs resist the forces acting on them in a linear/constant manner.
Progressive springs become progressively stiffer as forces act on them.
My opinion about the two
The progressive springs' initial coils will resist "whimsically" for the delight of on-road comfort but to detriment of off-road performance. Progressive springs are not so much designed for off-road but more for a "limousine ride" on-road. With a Land Rover weighing around 3 tons and running on 33 in plus tires I want it to perform in a linear/constant/predictable fashion, especially off camber.
Retaining
If you want to retain an axle from extending beyond what you desire it to do, just use a strap to hold the axle from going any farther then you like.
Shocks
Some shock absorbers are large enough and strong enough that they will perform the function of retaining the axle. This is not to difficult in the case of a relatively light rover axle, but if they where not designed to do so you run the risk of over extending the shock or (Bottoming it out)
Cones
Because of space constraints in the Rover wheel wells it is often useful and without many downsides, to use spring cones to gain more wheel travel. When used in combination with long travel extended shocks. This will give you more flexibility with out building a coil over system for you truck.
Putting it all together
The "sprung" mass of the vehicle will not compress the springs when the axle articulates in the opposite direction. Imagine a teeter-totter in a kid's playground. As the axle falls down to look for more traction the opposite side compress more under the added weight. When the direction of inclination changes back again the shock absorbers will slow down the initial return of the axle also slowing body roll. Then the spring will come in contact with it's spring perch, and it will perform it's loyal duty as the compression spring and start to hold the body again.
A side note about Traction
The old constant about traction is you can only put down on the ground as much torque as the terrain's available traction factor. If the factor is for example 0.1(Ice), you can have the truck fully locked, but the terrain will allow for only so much torque, or momentum, to be applied before the contact between tire and terrain will fail, resulting in slipping. So by keeping all the tires on the ground you are able to increase your traction patch
I've seen arguments both ways, but I think you'll find that people are starting to retain more often. As far as the argument that springs don't like to be extended, they probably don't. But on a D2 you're really not extending them very much at all.
Yes, and when you go to the 7100 or 2.0 Foxes you'll convert the bottom to D1 rear style spring seats.