Crank, no start...stumped.
#31
05-19-2012, 08:05 PM
I just did the same thing on my daughters 00 DII. She had a head gasket break on the outside and it was not overheating but sounded like a steam engine. It also had 2 water leaks and the headliner was dropping. Well, since she is only 22 and living at home, she works part time with school, realized she cant afford the gas much less pay to fix her truck. So I did the head gasket and pulled the headliner to fix the leaks. Found 2 leaks in the drains fixed them but still leaked. When I pulled the top of the engine it was a nightmare.. The rockers where so slugged i cleaned up everything...That was my first mistake... As with the head gasket broken, it ran super smooth.... Go figure. I did ARP studs and the engine looked better than new. Went to start and would not start. When I finally got it to start in ran so bad I thought it was going to implode. I towed it to my rover guy and 1 month later as I was not in a hurry, $2,200.00 and it's not leaking and running like a new truck... Yep, Typical rover..
Oh , yea....I own the truck now...
Oh , yea....I own the truck now...
#32
05-19-2012, 08:18 PM
If you want to read the voltage drop to the block, a better way to do that is under load. As an example, you could read + wire on + battery, and - wire on engine block, and read good volts. Because there is so little voltage drop at the tiny current level by a modern electronic meter.
But, if you place meter probes on (-) battery terminal, and engine block; then crank, if you get a reading that is the voltage drop being produced across whatever bad connection you have on the frame grounds. Can repeat for + wires. Point is that voltage drop from bad connections shows up very quickly under load. Obviously it a'int easy without some long gator clips to measure at the starter and crank engine at the same time. Unless you short the solenoid lead over. Just be sure it is chocked so it can't jump in gear and run over you...
But, if you place meter probes on (-) battery terminal, and engine block; then crank, if you get a reading that is the voltage drop being produced across whatever bad connection you have on the frame grounds. Can repeat for + wires. Point is that voltage drop from bad connections shows up very quickly under load. Obviously it a'int easy without some long gator clips to measure at the starter and crank engine at the same time. Unless you short the solenoid lead over. Just be sure it is chocked so it can't jump in gear and run over you...
I would have considered doing that, but I was reading the same voltage from battery terminal to battery terminal as I was from battery terminal to engine block (no matter how far I went on the other side of the block. This is within 1/100th of a volt, so I didn't see the need to check it under a load. If I had seen some sort of drop when checking from the battery to the engine block, I would see the need for a test under load.
Seeing that the voltage was the same from the battery to the engine block as it was directly across the terminals within 1/100th of a volt, do you still think a load test is warranted? I figure there are no bad connections if there no drop at all in voltage. I was expecting to see a drop of at least 1/10th of a volt to the far end of the engine block (near the first cylinder). The only place that showed a drop in voltage was the exhaust manifold (which isn't part of the engine block).
#33
05-19-2012, 08:26 PM
Super Moderator
Perhaps not. But consider that the modern meter has a 15 megohm load on the circuit, and draws a tiny fraction of a milliamp, while the starter draws 275 - 300 amps. What kind of volts across battery when cranking - maybe you have a dead cell? You are sure there is spark? You may have a bad starter, but it seems like even marginal spinning would work (Discos do crank in cold weather).
#34
05-19-2012, 09:35 PM
I checked all of the cylinders for spark using the actual spark plugs. I rechecked a few of them today. So the way I do it, I know everything is good from the coil to the plug.
I still consider the starter a possible issue, but since it is spinning, it's at the bottom of my list.
I do keep wondering if I switched the rockers. I had one labeled, but I wonder if I managed to switch them anyway. I've never switched rockers before, but I wonder if switching them would cause the vehicle to not start.
I still consider the starter a possible issue, but since it is spinning, it's at the bottom of my list.
I do keep wondering if I switched the rockers. I had one labeled, but I wonder if I managed to switch them anyway. I've never switched rockers before, but I wonder if switching them would cause the vehicle to not start.
#35
05-19-2012, 10:24 PM
Super Moderator
#36
05-20-2012, 05:52 AM
will give you a list this week
I have to go over the list but i know they replaced the , MAF, idol control valve,o2's , 1 sunroof assembly, replaced most of the parts of the other sunroof and some electrical stuff... did the headliner as i stripped it. Fixed a back door that was making wind noise. I suspect if i did not try to clean the inside and just swapped out the head gasket and had the head done, it would have started right up. Something about cleaning everything up and letting the truck sit for 6 months lead me to believe that this is what happens when things sit to long.
Chris
Chris
#37
05-20-2012, 07:52 AM
I have to go over the list but i know they replaced the , MAF, idol control valve,o2's , 1 sunroof assembly, replaced most of the parts of the other sunroof and some electrical stuff... did the headliner as i stripped it. Fixed a back door that was making wind noise. I suspect if i did not try to clean the inside and just swapped out the head gasket and had the head done, it would have started right up. Something about cleaning everything up and letting the truck sit for 6 months lead me to believe that this is what happens when things sit to long.
Chris
Chris
#38
05-20-2012, 07:58 AM
I am leaning in that direction also, even though I don't know how I could have switched them. I have to get another car done today, but I think the next thing I do is get the rocker covers off and switch the rocker covers. That doesn't take too long, so maybe I'll get that done before I do the steering rack on the other car.
#39
05-21-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't understand how the cam shafts would have been switched? Typically, one does not pull these out at all.
this would mean the front of the engine was apart and the timing chain replaced.
If you switch around the rocker arm bars from left to right, this does not matter.
Wondering if your coil packs have the control wires switched?
Meaning - the wire for one coil pack was put into the other one and visa versa.
This would cause a non-start problem.
If they had the engine out - I would refit the crank sensor.
this would mean the front of the engine was apart and the timing chain replaced.
If you switch around the rocker arm bars from left to right, this does not matter.
Wondering if your coil packs have the control wires switched?
Meaning - the wire for one coil pack was put into the other one and visa versa.
This would cause a non-start problem.
If they had the engine out - I would refit the crank sensor.
#40
05-21-2012, 01:27 PM
I don't understand how the cam shafts would have been switched? Typically, one does not pull these out at all.
this would mean the front of the engine was apart and the timing chain replaced.
If you switch around the rocker arm bars from left to right, this does not matter.
Wondering if your coil packs have the control wires switched?
Meaning - the wire for one coil pack was put into the other one and visa versa.
This would cause a non-start problem.
If they had the engine out - I would refit the crank sensor.
this would mean the front of the engine was apart and the timing chain replaced.
If you switch around the rocker arm bars from left to right, this does not matter.
Wondering if your coil packs have the control wires switched?
Meaning - the wire for one coil pack was put into the other one and visa versa.
This would cause a non-start problem.
If they had the engine out - I would refit the crank sensor.
No, not the cam shaft, the rocker shafts. I didn't touch the cam shaft. I didn't think the rocker arms would really matter either (even though the manual says to make sure you replace them on the correct side), but they could have been switched around, and the car isn't starting now.
During the initial disassembly, only one side of the coil pack was unplugged, and the unit was set to the side. When just the intake manifolds were taken off, the entire coil pack was removed, but it would take some effort to switch those wires around.
The engine wasn't removed and the crank sensor wasn't touched.
This thing is really bugging the hell out of me at this point. I'm going to switch the rocker's around and see what happens. Then I'm going to drop the pan to see what's happening underneath while it cranks. After that, I'm going to just take the whole thing apart again (absolute last resort).