D2 left for dead this morning... fuel pump? bad gas?
#1
-update- D2 not starting... fuel pump? bad gas?
Old Faithful (sarcastic name my wife gave my D2) has left me stranded again this morning & I'm looking for some ideas on where to start digging around.
I left for work this morning around 7:30 am.
Weather was around 70F, humid and light rain.
Truck was running normally. Temps, shifting, sounds, etc... I'm hyper-vigilant about anything being "off" & all seemed normal.
Had a low speed 1 mile or so drive to the gas station.
Truck was close to empty. I put $20 in because: a.) I'm not a fan of the nearest gas station and b.) I was running behind. & had to make an unplanned stop on the way to the office. I figured I'd fill up on my way home when I had more time to kill.
Truck started up and idled fine in park for a few of minutes while I replied to an email & set up an address in my phone for navigation. Once I left the gas station, things went downhill quick. Less than 1/8 mi away my Disco started acting like it was trying to stall. I'd feather the gas and it would straighten out for a second or two and then return. By the time I made it 1/2 mile from the station I had no power what so ever. Pushing down the gas pedal down got me a few MPH but the RPMS were low and I wasn't getting anywhere.
I pulled a quick right off the highway & headed back toward my neighborhood trying to limp home. I made it about 1000 feet and Old Faithful was dead as could be.
The truck starts and then either sputters for a few seconds and dies, or sputters once and dies. Pressing the gas pedal seemed to have no effect on keeping it running after it turned over.
My first thought was that I had gotten fuel w/ water in it due to the hard rain the night before & the sketchy gas station. I had a bottle of water remover (iso-Heet) in the back. I put that in the tank & hoped for the best. No luck. Called AAA for a lift home.
So... Where should I start?
Here is what I can offer:
1999 D2 190k miles
Recent work done: trans fluid/ filter- abt. 1000 miles ago, oil change about 1500 mi ago, plugs and wires have about 3500-4000 miles on them, coil pack was replaced at 97k, probably unrelated but I replaced some pulleys about 5k miles back also.
Have 3 Amigos Only ODBII code is the 15xx (1580 maybe?) which is related to the ABS issue from what I understand.
I have an ultraguage if that can be helpful.
-UPDATE-
What I've done (in order):
1.) I replaced the crankshaft position sensor. I had one on hand & it seemed like an easier task than pulling carpet & jumping into the fuel pump replacement. I had to wait for the pump to ship anyways, so I figured why not... No change. Still cranking, but not starting.
2.) Pulled the fuel pump out & sure enough, it was dead. w/ 12v applied I had no action. Tore it apart and the screen & filter didn't look too bad to me.
3.) Replaced the fuel pump.
With the new fuel pump installed, it still just cranks & doesn't start. I hooked a battery box up directly to the pump & the pump runs when powered. I jumped the fuel pump relay & the pump runs. No start though.
I suppose the new crankshaft sensor I installed could just be bad? I now know after-the-fact the that one I pulled out was good. Our other Disco 2's CPS went out (classic signs, no restart when hot & would restart when cooled). I swapped it with the CPS I pulled from my truck & I was good to go there.
I have rechecked to make sure the CPS is installed correctly. I'm thinking I just got a bad one out of the box, or perhaps the ECU isn't tripping the relay? Thoughts? Anyone have a link for a test procedure for the crank sensor? TIA!
I left for work this morning around 7:30 am.
Weather was around 70F, humid and light rain.
Truck was running normally. Temps, shifting, sounds, etc... I'm hyper-vigilant about anything being "off" & all seemed normal.
Had a low speed 1 mile or so drive to the gas station.
Truck was close to empty. I put $20 in because: a.) I'm not a fan of the nearest gas station and b.) I was running behind. & had to make an unplanned stop on the way to the office. I figured I'd fill up on my way home when I had more time to kill.
Truck started up and idled fine in park for a few of minutes while I replied to an email & set up an address in my phone for navigation. Once I left the gas station, things went downhill quick. Less than 1/8 mi away my Disco started acting like it was trying to stall. I'd feather the gas and it would straighten out for a second or two and then return. By the time I made it 1/2 mile from the station I had no power what so ever. Pushing down the gas pedal down got me a few MPH but the RPMS were low and I wasn't getting anywhere.
I pulled a quick right off the highway & headed back toward my neighborhood trying to limp home. I made it about 1000 feet and Old Faithful was dead as could be.
The truck starts and then either sputters for a few seconds and dies, or sputters once and dies. Pressing the gas pedal seemed to have no effect on keeping it running after it turned over.
My first thought was that I had gotten fuel w/ water in it due to the hard rain the night before & the sketchy gas station. I had a bottle of water remover (iso-Heet) in the back. I put that in the tank & hoped for the best. No luck. Called AAA for a lift home.
So... Where should I start?
Here is what I can offer:
1999 D2 190k miles
Recent work done: trans fluid/ filter- abt. 1000 miles ago, oil change about 1500 mi ago, plugs and wires have about 3500-4000 miles on them, coil pack was replaced at 97k, probably unrelated but I replaced some pulleys about 5k miles back also.
Have 3 Amigos Only ODBII code is the 15xx (1580 maybe?) which is related to the ABS issue from what I understand.
I have an ultraguage if that can be helpful.
-UPDATE-
What I've done (in order):
1.) I replaced the crankshaft position sensor. I had one on hand & it seemed like an easier task than pulling carpet & jumping into the fuel pump replacement. I had to wait for the pump to ship anyways, so I figured why not... No change. Still cranking, but not starting.
2.) Pulled the fuel pump out & sure enough, it was dead. w/ 12v applied I had no action. Tore it apart and the screen & filter didn't look too bad to me.
3.) Replaced the fuel pump.
With the new fuel pump installed, it still just cranks & doesn't start. I hooked a battery box up directly to the pump & the pump runs when powered. I jumped the fuel pump relay & the pump runs. No start though.
I suppose the new crankshaft sensor I installed could just be bad? I now know after-the-fact the that one I pulled out was good. Our other Disco 2's CPS went out (classic signs, no restart when hot & would restart when cooled). I swapped it with the CPS I pulled from my truck & I was good to go there.
I have rechecked to make sure the CPS is installed correctly. I'm thinking I just got a bad one out of the box, or perhaps the ECU isn't tripping the relay? Thoughts? Anyone have a link for a test procedure for the crank sensor? TIA!
Last edited by j.dstasio; 09-08-2015 at 09:51 AM.
#2
You probably killed your fuel pump.
When the gas tank is low, the fuel pump will suck air.
The gas lubricates the fuel pump.
If the fuel pump is not dead, then you may just have air in your system.
A Discovery 2 does not recirculate the fuel back to the tank as I recall.
There is just pressure going to the fuel rail.
You need to open the fuel rail and bleed out some air.
There is a fuel test port on it - a schrader valve.
have some one depress that valve and you turn the key
on, wait, then off, then on - wait about 10 times.
When your friend sees fuel out the schrader valve, then the discovery will start.
You waited too long to gas it up.
That is a severe no no.
you have been duly punished.
When the gas tank is low, the fuel pump will suck air.
The gas lubricates the fuel pump.
If the fuel pump is not dead, then you may just have air in your system.
A Discovery 2 does not recirculate the fuel back to the tank as I recall.
There is just pressure going to the fuel rail.
You need to open the fuel rail and bleed out some air.
There is a fuel test port on it - a schrader valve.
have some one depress that valve and you turn the key
on, wait, then off, then on - wait about 10 times.
When your friend sees fuel out the schrader valve, then the discovery will start.
You waited too long to gas it up.
That is a severe no no.
you have been duly punished.
#3
Thanks for the reply. Interesting about air being stuck at the fuel rail. I will give that a shot. I'm not in front of the engine right now to see, but would I be correct to assume I would need to pull the upper intake manifold off to access the valve you mentioned?
Mental note made about the low fuel. Thanks. Although, in my defense I wasn't running on fumes or anything. My morning commute is just laid out in a way that I don't pass a fuel station that is convienient to enter/exit for about 25 miles. They are all on the opposite side of a divided highway with no U-turns or left turns allowed. Weird NJ thing... I try to take back roads most of the way to avoid traffic.
Mental note made about the low fuel. Thanks. Although, in my defense I wasn't running on fumes or anything. My morning commute is just laid out in a way that I don't pass a fuel station that is convienient to enter/exit for about 25 miles. They are all on the opposite side of a divided highway with no U-turns or left turns allowed. Weird NJ thing... I try to take back roads most of the way to avoid traffic.
#4
#6
#7
The easiest way to check out the pump is with a pressure gauge. You can get them super cheap from Harbor Freight. They actually work pretty good for a $20 tool.
Another thing you could try is just listening to the fuel pump. Sometimes (not always) it will give you an indication of the pumps health. Roll all the windows up, close the doors, shut off the radio and blower fan, so you can hear just the pump and turn the key to the 'ON' position. The pump should run for just a couple seconds to prime the system. It should be an even sounding 'buzz'. If you can't hear anything, you can try getting down near the tank and having someone turn the key to on. If you don't hear anything from back there, or it is noisy or uneven sounding, the pump needs closer inspection!
Good Luck!
Another thing you could try is just listening to the fuel pump. Sometimes (not always) it will give you an indication of the pumps health. Roll all the windows up, close the doors, shut off the radio and blower fan, so you can hear just the pump and turn the key to the 'ON' position. The pump should run for just a couple seconds to prime the system. It should be an even sounding 'buzz'. If you can't hear anything, you can try getting down near the tank and having someone turn the key to on. If you don't hear anything from back there, or it is noisy or uneven sounding, the pump needs closer inspection!
Good Luck!
Last edited by disc oh no; 06-10-2015 at 06:00 AM.
#8