Death VIN 03 on BaT
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 302
From: StL, MO
A dealer in Brooklyn, NY is listing a D2 whose VIN falls within the range which is claimed to have oil pump problems (3A771801 to 3A808362). I know there's a lot of debate on this however I do have some personal experience in that I bought an 153k mile 03 last year with a failed pump that grenaded the engine. The owner was a car guy who had just got done dropping the tank to replace the fuel pump and sender, and POR-15'd the frame while he was at it. 80 miles after spending $1,247 on 5 BF Goodrich A/Ts the pump failed. Clearly not a case of neglect and while it certainly could be purely coincidental, especially given how long the engine lasted, the VIN is in the range above.
The BaT truck only has 52k on it and looks as nice as you would expect at that mileage, and there are 255 photos to back it up. At the current bid price of $7,500 the truck is getting to the limit of what it's worth given the fact that the engine *may* be destined to fail. Is it right to post something in the comments to bring this issue to light or is that just crapping on someone's auction? I'm of the opinion that the BaT community is there for exactly this reason, and honestly am a little surprised no one has brought up the oil pump issue yet.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...r-discovery-20
The BaT truck only has 52k on it and looks as nice as you would expect at that mileage, and there are 255 photos to back it up. At the current bid price of $7,500 the truck is getting to the limit of what it's worth given the fact that the engine *may* be destined to fail. Is it right to post something in the comments to bring this issue to light or is that just crapping on someone's auction? I'm of the opinion that the BaT community is there for exactly this reason, and honestly am a little surprised no one has brought up the oil pump issue yet.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...r-discovery-20
TReK
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,748
Likes: 506
From: Seattle, Wa
Did you examine the dowel pin locations on your block to assure yours was one of the recalled engines that did not get replaced? Did you buy yours new and therefore know that no previous owner did same?
If not then I think your oil pump failure was routine and not related to the VIN number.
I don't believe any block with mislocated dowels would last 153k.
If not then I think your oil pump failure was routine and not related to the VIN number.
I don't believe any block with mislocated dowels would last 153k.
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 442
From: SE PA
I did not so much as pull the front cover, which is why I commented that "it certainly could be purely coincidental, especially given how long the engine lasted". However I wasn't intending to debate whether or not my truck was affected by the purported oil pump problem, nor was I trying to claim that the truck in the BaT auction is doomed. My question is ethical, not mechanical. Is it right to bring the issue to light given the fact that it would negatively impact the auction? I'm picturing myself as the winner, only to find out later that there is this history of a potential problem out there. I'd feel pretty ****ty.
TReK
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,387
Likes: 488
Any D2 buyer should do their homework and know what they are getting into...especially someone ready to spend $10k-$20k for a 20 year old vehicle.
I don't think adding the stigma of a problem that was likely long gone 15 years ago is really fair, all things considered.
It's not like you can see part of the frame rotted through in one of the pictures, but no one has mentioned it(frame looks fine too, just saying...)
The cover and oil pump are no more an issue now on that 153k mile engine, than one that wasn't in that vin range.
If I were selling it, and knew it ran fine, I wouldn't appreciate someone bringing up ancient "what ifs" and scaring of potential buyers.
If the pump and cover havn't been changed recently, or ever, they're due anyway.
I don't think adding the stigma of a problem that was likely long gone 15 years ago is really fair, all things considered.
It's not like you can see part of the frame rotted through in one of the pictures, but no one has mentioned it(frame looks fine too, just saying...)
The cover and oil pump are no more an issue now on that 153k mile engine, than one that wasn't in that vin range.
If I were selling it, and knew it ran fine, I wouldn't appreciate someone bringing up ancient "what ifs" and scaring of potential buyers.
If the pump and cover havn't been changed recently, or ever, they're due anyway.
Unless an 03 was hidden away LR replaced all effected units either before they ever even went thru their PDI, or when it blew up shortly thereafter. The way the flaw was there is really no way it could just slip by. It was a flaw that caused a failure guaranteed. Thats why most were replaced either before or after the PDI with a brand new crate motor from LR 90% of the time (most were P38 4.6L’s due to the dealerships having them on hand already. Then eventually some P38’s got the D2 engines lol.
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 442
From: SE PA
Any D2 buyer should do their homework and know what they are getting into...especially someone ready to spend $10k-$20k for a 20 year old vehicle.
I don't think adding the stigma of a problem that was likely long gone 15 years ago is really fair, all things considered.
It's not like you can see part of the frame rotted through in one of the pictures, but no one has mentioned it(frame looks fine too, just saying...)
The cover and oil pump are no more an issue now on that 153k mile engine, than one that wasn't in that vin range.
If I were selling it, and knew it ran fine, I wouldn't appreciate someone bringing up ancient "what ifs" and scaring of potential buyers.
If the pump and cover havn't been changed recently, or ever, they're due anyway.
I don't think adding the stigma of a problem that was likely long gone 15 years ago is really fair, all things considered.
It's not like you can see part of the frame rotted through in one of the pictures, but no one has mentioned it(frame looks fine too, just saying...)
The cover and oil pump are no more an issue now on that 153k mile engine, than one that wasn't in that vin range.
If I were selling it, and knew it ran fine, I wouldn't appreciate someone bringing up ancient "what ifs" and scaring of potential buyers.
If the pump and cover havn't been changed recently, or ever, they're due anyway.
TReK
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,387
Likes: 488
Unless an 03 was hidden away LR replaced all effected units either before they ever even went thru their PDI, or when it blew up shortly thereafter. The way the flaw was there is really no way it could just slip by. It was a flaw that caused a failure guaranteed. Thats why most were replaced either before or after the PDI with a brand new crate motor from LR 90% of the time (most were P38 4.6L’s due to the dealerships having them on hand already. Then eventually some P38’s got the D2 engines lol.
So, really an 03 in the "bad" vin range may now be the most desireable, most likely now having a P38(minus a cdl)
Pretty much & whenever I see a dead P38 at the junk yard I always wonder if it’s got a D2 4.6L in it haha.
I had 2 03’s and both were in the VIN range. One was new off the showroom floor while the other was a LR Re-Certified Vehicle. The second one showed it was repaired when it was new. My 03 which I bought new = never got a notice to take it into be repaired. Later I ran the VIN & it showed to fall into the vin range. I put 189k on that D2 without any major services. Just a few spark plug wires & a purge control valve. The Re-Certified D2 I put 150k on and once again no major repairs.
I had 2 03’s and both were in the VIN range. One was new off the showroom floor while the other was a LR Re-Certified Vehicle. The second one showed it was repaired when it was new. My 03 which I bought new = never got a notice to take it into be repaired. Later I ran the VIN & it showed to fall into the vin range. I put 189k on that D2 without any major services. Just a few spark plug wires & a purge control valve. The Re-Certified D2 I put 150k on and once again no major repairs.
TReK
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,748
Likes: 506
From: Seattle, Wa
I'm pretty sure the owner, if concerned, could call any dealer and with the VIN determine if the engine had ever been replaced.
When I had my engine replaced under warranty at 38k miles the dealer had to wait a month for a new 4.6 from England. Pretty sure it was not a P38 block that they found in 2007... But it did last 173k miles before it finally cracked behind cylinder 5. Never overheated it once either. It did however burn a quart of oil every 1000 miles for its entire life... Which I blame on the dealer breaking it in with synthetic 10w30.
When I had my engine replaced under warranty at 38k miles the dealer had to wait a month for a new 4.6 from England. Pretty sure it was not a P38 block that they found in 2007... But it did last 173k miles before it finally cracked behind cylinder 5. Never overheated it once either. It did however burn a quart of oil every 1000 miles for its entire life... Which I blame on the dealer breaking it in with synthetic 10w30.
Last edited by Dave03S; Mar 9, 2020 at 01:30 PM.