Head Gasket repair failure, what did I do wrong?
#1
Head Gasket repair failure, what did I do wrong?
I just bought a 2004 very cheap with what they told me was head gasket failure. They own 2 D2's and had previously done the head gaskets on this one a year ago, so they seemed to know the signs. It overheated, she shut it off immediately. When they got home there was white smoke coming from the exhaust. When they did the heads a year ago they spent some money. They replaced the cam, timing chain, lifters, ARP studs and oil pump, but didn't get the heads resurfaced. Their son "did them by hand" what ever that means. I thought that was their issue, ALWAYS get aluminum heads resurfaced any time they come off is what I've been told.
I tore it down and had the heads checked and resurfaced, bought a head gasket kit for AB with the Elring head gaskets and reused the ARP studs (by all research I could find this is OK). I did plugs, wires and coils while everything was easy access and also the power steering pump because the old one was leaking profusely. The deck of the block looked great and there was zero wear in the cylinders. I was feeling pretty good about everything until about a minute after startup at which point it stared puffing white smoke and had a slight miss. This was literally a minute, MAYBE two. Nowhere near the time it takes to even get to operating temperature. I plugged in an OBDII dongle and opened a generic app and watched the temp climb and sort of level out. I took it around the block and the temp spiked, so I shut it down immediately. I found I had missed tightening one of the throttle body heater hoses and it popped off. After remedying that and refilling with coolant I got it bad home. After shutting it down I had what sounded like a coolant leak under the intake. There are no signs of an external leak, but there was a TON of water under the oil cap when I pulled that off. I now get a check engine light on for misfires in 5 and 7. I tried to get a loaner compassion tester from O'Reilly's but theirs is out right now. I'll post back when I get those results.
What did I screw up? Why would it fail so quick? I had to miss something, or the block is toast and I didn't realize it. Depending on the compression test results, I may order a new intake gasket and redo that. If it didn't seal right it *could* be letting water in the intake runner causing white smoke and a miss. I don't know though. I had bought the rig thinking it would be a good LS swap candidate, but when I got inside and saw how good everything looked I decided to fix it. I may have to go that route.
I tore it down and had the heads checked and resurfaced, bought a head gasket kit for AB with the Elring head gaskets and reused the ARP studs (by all research I could find this is OK). I did plugs, wires and coils while everything was easy access and also the power steering pump because the old one was leaking profusely. The deck of the block looked great and there was zero wear in the cylinders. I was feeling pretty good about everything until about a minute after startup at which point it stared puffing white smoke and had a slight miss. This was literally a minute, MAYBE two. Nowhere near the time it takes to even get to operating temperature. I plugged in an OBDII dongle and opened a generic app and watched the temp climb and sort of level out. I took it around the block and the temp spiked, so I shut it down immediately. I found I had missed tightening one of the throttle body heater hoses and it popped off. After remedying that and refilling with coolant I got it bad home. After shutting it down I had what sounded like a coolant leak under the intake. There are no signs of an external leak, but there was a TON of water under the oil cap when I pulled that off. I now get a check engine light on for misfires in 5 and 7. I tried to get a loaner compassion tester from O'Reilly's but theirs is out right now. I'll post back when I get those results.
What did I screw up? Why would it fail so quick? I had to miss something, or the block is toast and I didn't realize it. Depending on the compression test results, I may order a new intake gasket and redo that. If it didn't seal right it *could* be letting water in the intake runner causing white smoke and a miss. I don't know though. I had bought the rig thinking it would be a good LS swap candidate, but when I got inside and saw how good everything looked I decided to fix it. I may have to go that route.
#2
Could be a cracked block, although that is somewhat rare. When you took it apart was there evidence of a blown HG? I assume the oil is not milky? Borrow the coolant pressure tester from Advance and pressurize hte system, look for leaks, see if it holds pressure for any time at all. Pull the plugs on 5 and 7, lets take a look at them. Did you double check the intake bolt torque near 7?
#3
If the previous owner had blown the head gasket, there would be substantial anti-freeze inside the exhaust system...so...getting some white smoke after a head gasket job is not unusual...especially immediately. The spiking in temp, could be caused by not being bled properly. I'd investigate the miss by doing a compression test.
Yeah like mentioned above...did you see issues with the head gaskets you removed?
Are you sure you installed the head gaskets correctly, right side up?
And yes, if you didn't get the lower intake gasket installed correctly...it could be getting anti-freeze into the cylinder that way.
Yeah like mentioned above...did you see issues with the head gaskets you removed?
Are you sure you installed the head gaskets correctly, right side up?
And yes, if you didn't get the lower intake gasket installed correctly...it could be getting anti-freeze into the cylinder that way.
#5
It sounds like the Lower manifold may have a crack in one of the two front channels:
This is where coolant enters the IM. When I did my HG's about 6 weeks ago, the Atlantic British video was very careful to mention that if you were not careful when prying this part out you could damage the channels. Sounds like that might have happened. A crack would dump coolant right down and into the whole works. A number of them for sale on ebay.
This is where coolant enters the IM. When I did my HG's about 6 weeks ago, the Atlantic British video was very careful to mention that if you were not careful when prying this part out you could damage the channels. Sounds like that might have happened. A crack would dump coolant right down and into the whole works. A number of them for sale on ebay.
#6
Could be a cracked block, although that is somewhat rare. When you took it apart was there evidence of a blown HG? I assume the oil is not milky? Borrow the coolant pressure tester from Advance and pressurize hte system, look for leaks, see if it holds pressure for any time at all. Pull the plugs on 5 and 7, lets take a look at them. Did you double check the intake bolt torque near 7?
If the previous owner had blown the head gasket, there would be substantial anti-freeze inside the exhaust system...so...getting some white smoke after a head gasket job is not unusual...especially immediately. The spiking in temp, could be caused by not being bled properly. I'd investigate the miss by doing a compression test.
Yeah like mentioned above...did you see issues with the head gaskets you removed?
Are you sure you installed the head gaskets correctly, right side up?
And yes, if you didn't get the lower intake gasket installed correctly...it could be getting anti-freeze into the cylinder that way.
Yeah like mentioned above...did you see issues with the head gaskets you removed?
Are you sure you installed the head gaskets correctly, right side up?
And yes, if you didn't get the lower intake gasket installed correctly...it could be getting anti-freeze into the cylinder that way.
It sounds like the Lower manifold may have a crack in one of the two front channels:
This is where coolant enters the IM. When I did my HG's about 6 weeks ago, the Atlantic British video was very careful to mention that if you were not careful when prying this part out you could damage the channels. Sounds like that might have happened. A crack would dump coolant right down and into the whole works. A number of them for sale on ebay.
This is where coolant enters the IM. When I did my HG's about 6 weeks ago, the Atlantic British video was very careful to mention that if you were not careful when prying this part out you could damage the channels. Sounds like that might have happened. A crack would dump coolant right down and into the whole works. A number of them for sale on ebay.
#7
It could run into the valley. If you flip the manifold over on it's back, you can see how close the coolant channels are to the "gas" channels. if there is a crack, it might spit coolant into one of those passages as well. There are two notches in the front of the block where it is recommended you put some RTV. FWIW, I had never done an HG repair before so I watched the AB videos(one for tear down & one for rebuild) about 5 times to make sure I did it right.
I can't claim my HG repair went perfectly. one of the SAI tubes going into the block chewed up some threads in the block so it's got a load of red Loctite on it. Mechanically it is good, just an electrical issue to sort out.
I can't claim my HG repair went perfectly. one of the SAI tubes going into the block chewed up some threads in the block so it's got a load of red Loctite on it. Mechanically it is good, just an electrical issue to sort out.
#8
@m_lars It takes a good drive to clear any moisture in the system, you need to come up to full temp then drive for 20 minutes. But the lower intake manifold is pretty easy to not have seal right, you need the RTV under the gasket and on top where the 4 water ports are (2 front and 2 rear). If they do not mate up with the gasket they tend to leak, I test fitted mine about 3 times before locking it down.
#9
@m_lars It takes a good drive to clear any moisture in the system, you need to come up to full temp then drive for 20 minutes. But the lower intake manifold is pretty easy to not have seal right, you need the RTV under the gasket and on top where the 4 water ports are (2 front and 2 rear). If they do not mate up with the gasket they tend to leak, I test fitted mine about 3 times before locking it down.
I did RTV both sides of the intake gasket on all 4 ports and it was lined up ok with the ports on the head. I am still suspect of this area given there was an audible leak when it was hot. Depending on my compression results I may order another intake gasket and try again.