Ignition switch issue
Thread Starter
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Three Wheeling
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 78
Likes: 1
From: Outer Banks North Carolina
Ignition switch issue
Hello again,
Well I have an issue I want to sort out with the ignition. Its been this way since I purchased our 2004 Disco a month ago, time to fix it. When I turn the key to ignition to actually start the engine 80% of the time nothing happens. 20% fires right up first turn. You can tell there is some draw on the electrical system as the dash lights dim a bit. There is no clicking or other sounds. If I turn the key quickly two or three times it will fire up. I have looked that the starter power wire and the connector is clean.
Is there a relay that can be checked that is outside the starter? Has anyone had issues with the ignition switch its self? Before I take a part the steering column I want to make sure I have covered all the bases.
Thanks,
Mike
Well I have an issue I want to sort out with the ignition. Its been this way since I purchased our 2004 Disco a month ago, time to fix it. When I turn the key to ignition to actually start the engine 80% of the time nothing happens. 20% fires right up first turn. You can tell there is some draw on the electrical system as the dash lights dim a bit. There is no clicking or other sounds. If I turn the key quickly two or three times it will fire up. I have looked that the starter power wire and the connector is clean.
Is there a relay that can be checked that is outside the starter? Has anyone had issues with the ignition switch its self? Before I take a part the steering column I want to make sure I have covered all the bases.
Thanks,
Mike
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,322
Likes: 88
From: Savannah Georgia
It is may not be the switch. See the attached post, there are wiring diagrams, etc. https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...popping-44099/. There are places you can check with a meter to see if certain sequence of relays is taking place.
When key is on, main relay should engage, the ECU powers up all the sensors, etc.
When key is turned to crank, the BCU operates the crank relay.
The ECU engages the fuel pump relay, but we think it won't do that if it does not see a signal from the crank position sensor that the engine is actually spinning in 2 - 3 seconds.
There are a couple of wires on the starter, all are important, not just the big one. If your starter relay is engaging, could be solenoid in the starter. You should be able to remove starter relay and jump across terminals to force cranking action.
When key is on, main relay should engage, the ECU powers up all the sensors, etc.
When key is turned to crank, the BCU operates the crank relay.
The ECU engages the fuel pump relay, but we think it won't do that if it does not see a signal from the crank position sensor that the engine is actually spinning in 2 - 3 seconds.
There are a couple of wires on the starter, all are important, not just the big one. If your starter relay is engaging, could be solenoid in the starter. You should be able to remove starter relay and jump across terminals to force cranking action.
Thread Starter
|
Three Wheeling
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 78
Likes: 1
From: Outer Banks North Carolina
It is may not be the switch. See the attached post, there are wiring diagrams, etc. https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...popping-44099/. There are places you can check with a meter to see if certain sequence of relays is taking place.
When key is on, main relay should engage, the ECU powers up all the sensors, etc.
When key is turned to crank, the BCU operates the crank relay.
The ECU engages the fuel pump relay, but we think it won't do that if it does not see a signal from the crank position sensor that the engine is actually spinning in 2 - 3 seconds.
There are a couple of wires on the starter, all are important, not just the big one. If your starter relay is engaging, could be solenoid in the starter. You should be able to remove starter relay and jump across terminals to force cranking action.
When key is on, main relay should engage, the ECU powers up all the sensors, etc.
When key is turned to crank, the BCU operates the crank relay.
The ECU engages the fuel pump relay, but we think it won't do that if it does not see a signal from the crank position sensor that the engine is actually spinning in 2 - 3 seconds.
There are a couple of wires on the starter, all are important, not just the big one. If your starter relay is engaging, could be solenoid in the starter. You should be able to remove starter relay and jump across terminals to force cranking action.
Thanks,
Mike
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,322
Likes: 88
From: Savannah Georgia
Here's the basic drawing and fuse / relay layout from the RAVE. As you can see, the cranking relay in the underhood fuse box is turning on battery thru fuse link 13 to the starter. If you remove the starter relay, you can jump it momentarily to bump starter [TRUCK MUST BE IN PARK OR "N" WITH WHEELS BLOCKED].
If starter does well each time, that would point elsewhere, like BCU module (bet they are so high at a dealer you'ld want one from a dismantler) - but seems odd that it would not be the same each time, solid state electronics usually fails for good.
Could be starter relay, could swap with another same size and type relay, like front headlight washer, or such.
Could be solenoid, mine would make a sizzle sound, but finally kick in. PITA to remove the starter. There are shops that specialize in rebuilding starters in most good sized towns, plus you have dismantlers near you.
The starter has an ground bond to chassis as well as the main big wire back to the battery (not fused, so careful). These and the smaller wires would need to be clean and tight. Propshaft and exhaust will be in your way.
Looks like if you read for 12 volts between fuse 23 (under dash) and metal chassis, you should have a reading when key turned to start. If not, suspect key or fuse. If you do have 12 volts when key turned, it could point toward BCU.
If starter does well each time, that would point elsewhere, like BCU module (bet they are so high at a dealer you'ld want one from a dismantler) - but seems odd that it would not be the same each time, solid state electronics usually fails for good.
Could be starter relay, could swap with another same size and type relay, like front headlight washer, or such.
Could be solenoid, mine would make a sizzle sound, but finally kick in. PITA to remove the starter. There are shops that specialize in rebuilding starters in most good sized towns, plus you have dismantlers near you.
The starter has an ground bond to chassis as well as the main big wire back to the battery (not fused, so careful). These and the smaller wires would need to be clean and tight. Propshaft and exhaust will be in your way.
Looks like if you read for 12 volts between fuse 23 (under dash) and metal chassis, you should have a reading when key turned to start. If not, suspect key or fuse. If you do have 12 volts when key turned, it could point toward BCU.
Thread Starter
|
Three Wheeling
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 78
Likes: 1
From: Outer Banks North Carolina
Here's the basic drawing and fuse / relay layout from the RAVE. As you can see, the cranking relay in the underhood fuse box is turning on battery thru fuse link 13 to the starter. If you remove the starter relay, you can jump it momentarily to bump starter [TRUCK MUST BE IN PARK OR "N" WITH WHEELS BLOCKED].
If starter does well each time, that would point elsewhere, like BCU module (bet they are so high at a dealer you'ld want one from a dismantler) - but seems odd that it would not be the same each time, solid state electronics usually fails for good.
Could be starter relay, could swap with another same size and type relay, like front headlight washer, or such.
Could be solenoid, mine would make a sizzle sound, but finally kick in. PITA to remove the starter. There are shops that specialize in rebuilding starters in most good sized towns, plus you have dismantlers near you.
The starter has an ground bond to chassis as well as the main big wire back to the battery (not fused, so careful). These and the smaller wires would need to be clean and tight. Propshaft and exhaust will be in your way.
Looks like if you read for 12 volts between fuse 23 (under dash) and metal chassis, you should have a reading when key turned to start. If not, suspect key or fuse. If you do have 12 volts when key turned, it could point toward BCU.
If starter does well each time, that would point elsewhere, like BCU module (bet they are so high at a dealer you'ld want one from a dismantler) - but seems odd that it would not be the same each time, solid state electronics usually fails for good.
Could be starter relay, could swap with another same size and type relay, like front headlight washer, or such.
Could be solenoid, mine would make a sizzle sound, but finally kick in. PITA to remove the starter. There are shops that specialize in rebuilding starters in most good sized towns, plus you have dismantlers near you.
The starter has an ground bond to chassis as well as the main big wire back to the battery (not fused, so careful). These and the smaller wires would need to be clean and tight. Propshaft and exhaust will be in your way.
Looks like if you read for 12 volts between fuse 23 (under dash) and metal chassis, you should have a reading when key turned to start. If not, suspect key or fuse. If you do have 12 volts when key turned, it could point toward BCU.
Thank you very much for this info. I was having a hard time finding it in the RAVE having just opened it for the first time. If my guess is right its going to be the relay, we'll see. The solenoid could also be the issue but I am not hearing sizzling, clicking or any engagement issues. I agree that if the BCU failed then it would never start. I will be working on it again this evening, I'll let you know.
Thanks,
Mike
Thread Starter
|
Three Wheeling
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 78
Likes: 1
From: Outer Banks North Carolina
Could be starter relay, could swap with another same size and type relay, like front headlight washer, or such.
Could be solenoid, mine would make a sizzle sound, but finally kick in. PITA to remove the starter. There are shops that specialize in rebuilding starters in most good sized towns, plus you have dismantlers near you.
The starter has an ground bond to chassis as well as the main big wire back to the battery (not fused, so careful). These and the smaller wires would need to be clean and tight. Propshaft and exhaust will be in your way.
Looks like if you read for 12 volts between fuse 23 (under dash) and metal chassis, you should have a reading when key turned to start. If not, suspect key or fuse. If you do have 12 volts when key turned, it could point toward BCU.
Could be solenoid, mine would make a sizzle sound, but finally kick in. PITA to remove the starter. There are shops that specialize in rebuilding starters in most good sized towns, plus you have dismantlers near you.
The starter has an ground bond to chassis as well as the main big wire back to the battery (not fused, so careful). These and the smaller wires would need to be clean and tight. Propshaft and exhaust will be in your way.
Looks like if you read for 12 volts between fuse 23 (under dash) and metal chassis, you should have a reading when key turned to start. If not, suspect key or fuse. If you do have 12 volts when key turned, it could point toward BCU.
While I was in there I found the 40amp fuse for the A/C fan fried and sure enough the old fan is seized. Took it out and ordered a A/C Delco unit. Found all that info on this forum as well. I love this place!
--Mike
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