M & S flashing, will they ever stop?
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 948
Likes: 36
From: New Hampshire
Thank you all for your replies, I have replaced my under warranty battery yesterday, it was tested at dealer's shop, the recommendation by the machine was to 'Replace Battery', especially when the CCA was tested, it gave 625CCA instead of 750ish CCA (I understand CCA is not crucial with petrol engines). As for alternator charging, it seemed normal with no issues.
I drove the car this morning, and at almost exactly the same spot I got the M&S lights flashing again, cleared them, drove the car normally.
So I guess I'm off to ordering one XYZ switch online. I can't do the job of cleaning it. I found a used one for 285$, anyone has any thoughts on used ones with warranty?
I drove the car this morning, and at almost exactly the same spot I got the M&S lights flashing again, cleared them, drove the car normally.
So I guess I'm off to ordering one XYZ switch online. I can't do the job of cleaning it. I found a used one for 285$, anyone has any thoughts on used ones with warranty?
Good luck, I hope you get it fixed!
Camel Trophy
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,883
Likes: 951
From: Charlotte
Transmission fault codes and warning lamp indications are listed in a table on pages 616-617 of RAVE. It would be best, of course, to get the transmission codes read, but unless you or someone near you has a TestBook, Autologic, Nanocom or something similar you are out of luck to do that. I realize you said you are in East Africa. Inexpensive code readers don't read transmission codes.
The description for the first one listed says "Gear position switch, incorrect outputs." The effect for that fault is "Maintains current gear in low range, limp home mode in high range. Shift pressure to maximum, harsh gear shifts/engagement." It also shows that if this fault is present the MIL will be lit along with flashing M & S lights.
Those match the symptoms of your truck, but unfortunately there are 14 other faults that present all three of the same symptoms so you have a 1 in 15 chance that a replacement XYZ will solve the problem.
I have had to replace the XYZ twice. The first time it failed I could not remove the key from the ignition switch because the BCU wasn't getting the signal that the trans was in Park. At least some (perhaps all; I don't recall) of the PRND321 LED indicators in the instrument cluster and the red LEDs in the shifter surround did not light. Do all your PRND321 indicators illuminate as they should?
The second time the truck simply would not start, even though the indicator lights all illuminated and there was no problem removing the key.
It seems to me that if it was the XYZ the problem would persist through the day and not occur only first thing in the day.
The XYZ can be removed, disassembled, cleaned and tested. I would at least try that before spending $285 on a used part that may have only a 1 in 15 probability of solving the problem.
The description for the first one listed says "Gear position switch, incorrect outputs." The effect for that fault is "Maintains current gear in low range, limp home mode in high range. Shift pressure to maximum, harsh gear shifts/engagement." It also shows that if this fault is present the MIL will be lit along with flashing M & S lights.
Those match the symptoms of your truck, but unfortunately there are 14 other faults that present all three of the same symptoms so you have a 1 in 15 chance that a replacement XYZ will solve the problem.
I have had to replace the XYZ twice. The first time it failed I could not remove the key from the ignition switch because the BCU wasn't getting the signal that the trans was in Park. At least some (perhaps all; I don't recall) of the PRND321 LED indicators in the instrument cluster and the red LEDs in the shifter surround did not light. Do all your PRND321 indicators illuminate as they should?
The second time the truck simply would not start, even though the indicator lights all illuminated and there was no problem removing the key.
It seems to me that if it was the XYZ the problem would persist through the day and not occur only first thing in the day.
The XYZ can be removed, disassembled, cleaned and tested. I would at least try that before spending $285 on a used part that may have only a 1 in 15 probability of solving the problem.
Last edited by mln01; Jun 18, 2015 at 03:02 PM.
Baja
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,845
Likes: 368
From: Near Bordeaux, France
Transmission fault codes and warning lamp indications are listed in a table on pages 616-617 of RAVE. It would be best, of course, to get the transmission codes read, but unless you or someone near you has a TestBook, Autologic, Nanocom or something similar you are out of luck to do that. I realize you said you are in East Africa. Inexpensive code readers don't read transmission codes.
The description for the first one listed says "Gear position switch, incorrect outputs." The effect for that fault is "Maintains current gear in low range, limp home mode in high range. Shift pressure to maximum, harsh gear shifts/engagement." It also shows that if this fault is present the MIL will be lit along with flashing M & S lights.
Those match the symptoms of your truck, but unfortunately there are 14 other faults that present all three of the same symptoms so you have a 1 in 15 chance that a replacement XYZ will solve the problem.
I have had to replace the XYZ twice. The first time it failed I could not remove the key from the ignition switch because the BCU wasn't getting the signal that the trans was in Park. At least some (perhaps all; I don't recall) of the PRND321 LED indicators in the instrument cluster and the red LEDs in the shifter surround did not light. Do all your PRND321 indicators illuminate as they should?
The second time the truck simply would not start, even though the indicator lights all illuminated and there was no problem removing the key.
It seems to me that if it was the XYZ the problem would persist through the day and not occur only first thing in the day.
The XYZ can be removed, disassembled, cleaned and tested. I would at least try that before spending $285 on a used part that may have only a 1 in 15 probability of solving the problem.
The description for the first one listed says "Gear position switch, incorrect outputs." The effect for that fault is "Maintains current gear in low range, limp home mode in high range. Shift pressure to maximum, harsh gear shifts/engagement." It also shows that if this fault is present the MIL will be lit along with flashing M & S lights.
Those match the symptoms of your truck, but unfortunately there are 14 other faults that present all three of the same symptoms so you have a 1 in 15 chance that a replacement XYZ will solve the problem.
I have had to replace the XYZ twice. The first time it failed I could not remove the key from the ignition switch because the BCU wasn't getting the signal that the trans was in Park. At least some (perhaps all; I don't recall) of the PRND321 LED indicators in the instrument cluster and the red LEDs in the shifter surround did not light. Do all your PRND321 indicators illuminate as they should?
The second time the truck simply would not start, even though the indicator lights all illuminated and there was no problem removing the key.
It seems to me that if it was the XYZ the problem would persist through the day and not occur only first thing in the day.
The XYZ can be removed, disassembled, cleaned and tested. I would at least try that before spending $285 on a used part that may have only a 1 in 15 probability of solving the problem.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 24
Since I have had my truck ,03 d2 for almost nine years, I have had the flashing M&S lites 4 or 5 times. Every time it's been ground cable and battery connections. Once it was the battery, which was old, but all other times I removed the cables and cleaned the terminals on both ends with a file down to clean metal and put them back on a tightened the heck out of them and the problem goes away....it pops up again every few years but, for me, it's always been the connections.
A friends truck also an 03 d2 had the flashing M&S lights and had the XYZ switch cleaned or replaced and it fixed it, last I heard, so I guess it's not always the cable connections but, for me, it has been...
first I would clean the cable connectors really good...and ground cables both ends and middle on the fender....before I went on to other more expensive things....and you may want to try what drowssap said...try running an additional ground wire from the battery to the engine...tighten a bare end between your ground terminal on the battery and the other end under your terminal on the engine...in addition to your existing cable...worth a try.
A friends truck also an 03 d2 had the flashing M&S lights and had the XYZ switch cleaned or replaced and it fixed it, last I heard, so I guess it's not always the cable connections but, for me, it has been...
first I would clean the cable connectors really good...and ground cables both ends and middle on the fender....before I went on to other more expensive things....and you may want to try what drowssap said...try running an additional ground wire from the battery to the engine...tighten a bare end between your ground terminal on the battery and the other end under your terminal on the engine...in addition to your existing cable...worth a try.
Last edited by RicketyTick; Jun 18, 2015 at 08:11 PM.
Thread Starter
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4wd Low
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11
Likes: 2
Transmission fault codes and warning lamp indications are listed in a table on pages 616-617 of RAVE. It would be best, of course, to get the transmission codes read, but unless you or someone near you has a TestBook, Autologic, Nanocom or something similar you are out of luck to do that. I realize you said you are in East Africa. Inexpensive code readers don't read transmission codes.
The description for the first one listed says "Gear position switch, incorrect outputs." The effect for that fault is "Maintains current gear in low range, limp home mode in high range. Shift pressure to maximum, harsh gear shifts/engagement." It also shows that if this fault is present the MIL will be lit along with flashing M & S lights.
Those match the symptoms of your truck, but unfortunately there are 14 other faults that present all three of the same symptoms so you have a 1 in 15 chance that a replacement XYZ will solve the problem.
I have had to replace the XYZ twice. The first time it failed I could not remove the key from the ignition switch because the BCU wasn't getting the signal that the trans was in Park. At least some (perhaps all; I don't recall) of the PRND321 LED indicators in the instrument cluster and the red LEDs in the shifter surround did not light. Do all your PRND321 indicators illuminate as they should?
The second time the truck simply would not start, even though the indicator lights all illuminated and there was no problem removing the key.
It seems to me that if it was the XYZ the problem would persist through the day and not occur only first thing in the day.
The XYZ can be removed, disassembled, cleaned and tested. I would at least try that before spending $285 on a used part that may have only a 1 in 15 probability of solving the problem.
The description for the first one listed says "Gear position switch, incorrect outputs." The effect for that fault is "Maintains current gear in low range, limp home mode in high range. Shift pressure to maximum, harsh gear shifts/engagement." It also shows that if this fault is present the MIL will be lit along with flashing M & S lights.
Those match the symptoms of your truck, but unfortunately there are 14 other faults that present all three of the same symptoms so you have a 1 in 15 chance that a replacement XYZ will solve the problem.
I have had to replace the XYZ twice. The first time it failed I could not remove the key from the ignition switch because the BCU wasn't getting the signal that the trans was in Park. At least some (perhaps all; I don't recall) of the PRND321 LED indicators in the instrument cluster and the red LEDs in the shifter surround did not light. Do all your PRND321 indicators illuminate as they should?
The second time the truck simply would not start, even though the indicator lights all illuminated and there was no problem removing the key.
It seems to me that if it was the XYZ the problem would persist through the day and not occur only first thing in the day.
The XYZ can be removed, disassembled, cleaned and tested. I would at least try that before spending $285 on a used part that may have only a 1 in 15 probability of solving the problem.
I mentioned earlier that after I changed the battery, the error came back, cleared and drove. No 'check Engine" light.
The following day, I have a started the car and drove on 1st gear, eased into 2nd, 3rd and ‘D’ and no error came for the whole day.
The following morning, I drove on ‘D’ and the error came back, cleared and drove. “No Check Engine”
This morning, I drove on 1st gear and few seconds later, I heard the engine roughing up a bit, “check Engine” light came on, once I eased the gear to a higher gear ‘D’, M&S started flashing, cleared it but the error came almost instantly after driving for a very short distance (50 meters), I revered the car back into my garage, and walked to work!
All my PRND321 indicators illuminate as they should on the dashboard.
Thread Starter
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4wd Low
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11
Likes: 2
I also noticed just tonight, that when the M&S lights are flashing, the gear selector on the dashboard stays on 'D' irrespective of the gear position, I tried '3', '2', and '1', expecting to see the gear selected on the dash, but it was showing 'D' only. Does that a better indicator that it might be the XYZ switch?
Baja
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,845
Likes: 368
From: Near Bordeaux, France
I also noticed just tonight, that when the M&S lights are flashing, the gear selector on the dashboard stays on 'D' irrespective of the gear position, I tried '3', '2', and '1', expecting to see the gear selected on the dash, but it was showing 'D' only. Does that a better indicator that it might be the XYZ switch?
Camel Trophy
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,883
Likes: 951
From: Charlotte
I think that the fact that the PRND321 indicators all illuminate correctly except when the M&S lights are flashing reduces the probability that its the XYZ.
Is there a shop anywhere reasonably close to you that could simply read the trans codes for you? Again, I recognize you are in East Africa. If not just go ahead and rebuild the XYZ to either confirm or eliminate it as the source of the problem.
Is there a shop anywhere reasonably close to you that could simply read the trans codes for you? Again, I recognize you are in East Africa. If not just go ahead and rebuild the XYZ to either confirm or eliminate it as the source of the problem.
Last edited by mln01; Jun 23, 2015 at 07:45 PM.