My 4.0 V8 Overhaul/Rebuild Thread - MY2002 107k
#21
08-01-2016, 01:17 PM
Richard Turner had this to say about AB's bearings:
I suspect the bearings in your picture are Durabond?
The camshaft bearings we us do not have the oil grooves (they are Durabond) Durabond offer an option for a bearing that replicates the oem bearing. In reality all v8 bearings tend to wear quite heavily on the thrust side of the front bearing. You could argue that the oil grooves give less bearing surface area. The oem bearing only has oil grooves on the non thrust upper side which may help distribute oil. The reality of the situation is they are all good bearings and they all work however the heavy wear described above appears to be a fact of life with the V8.
I did some research and can't find any conclusive evidence over which bearing style is better. The oil grooves from AB seems to be the newer design, however.
Last edited by Jeff Blake; 08-01-2016 at 01:26 PM.
#22
08-01-2016, 01:41 PM
I can't see the oil groove being a bad thing. Richard is absolutely correct that the thrust side of your bearings see the majority of the wear. In the video you were watching you can pause it and look at the bearings as he's taking them out and you can see wear near the edges, but the centers look perfect.
I wonder if you can buy the correct spec bearings from Durabond for the cheaper? You'd probably have to know what the exact specs were to do that.
I wonder if you can buy the correct spec bearings from Durabond for the cheaper? You'd probably have to know what the exact specs were to do that.
#23
08-01-2016, 03:19 PM
Camel Trophy
<p>Jeff, I've got the H180 cam and love it. The cam plus a port and polish on the heads really wakes the truck up. I can also say, just go for OEM lifters. I've had both OEM and Rhodes on the H180 and the OEM seem to make a little more power down low. Plus, the Rhodes are crazy loud.</p><p><br></p><p>as for the sleeves, I wouldn't pay to have the top hat liners installed, but you could always weld them while you've got everything apart. RoverMasterTech did a write up on that, might be worth checking out.</p>
#24
08-01-2016, 03:24 PM
Thanks Alex... what's a port and polish? I haven't heard that term before. No dice on the welding... I wouldn't be comfortable doing that.
I'll probably stick with my BRITPART lifters since I've taken out all the packaging and probably can't return them to lucky8. Turner sells Delphi lifters, but he says the BRITPARTs are great (below). What brand is OEM? You mean, the expensive LR Genuine's?
Another great reply from Richard Turner:
I'll probably stick with my BRITPART lifters since I've taken out all the packaging and probably can't return them to lucky8. Turner sells Delphi lifters, but he says the BRITPARTs are great (below). What brand is OEM? You mean, the expensive LR Genuine's?
Another great reply from Richard Turner:
Jeff
The steel rocker arms are fine, although they do not look anything very special and are pretty much indestructible, the huge problem with them is that they vary greatly from one rocker to another in the relationship between the pad and the cup for the pushrod. They need to be selectively assembled. We buy a couple of hundred at the time and reject anything that is off limits and batch the rest. The reality being that the supplier will then supply the rejects to others!
Our preference is to measure and inspect the original oem rockers, measure the bore and determine that the cup and pad are in good condition and reface. This results in a much more consistent engine build. We top up as and when require with steel rockers when we run short. We sell matched sets through our online store.
BRITPART pushrods are excellent as to hydraulic lifters, do not know what they sell similarly Allmakes rockershafts, do not know what they sell.
We supply the Delphi oem lifters and oem rocker shafts and oem camshafts for that matter. There is an important relationship between the lifters and the camshafts in that the crown radius (the lifter is not flat although described as flat tappets) needs to be to the correct specification to work with the camshaft lobe which is slightly tapered when viewed from the side. This results in the correct rotation of the lifter which does not always occur with non original lifters. You can still have problems with oem camshaft and lifters but this is more to do with lubrication, oil degradation and/or oil contamination which is quite rare.
Rocker posts and washer can be re used unless damaged.
I would recommend you buy all the camshaft equipment from one source to reduce the probability of unnecessary problems. You will appreciate with the best will in the world wholesale companies are not privy to the technical information and experience of engine builders. We find despite the feedback we give to suppliers including land rover that they are not particularly good listeners when you give well founded feedback. We have tried on numerous occasions to educate the importers of the steel rockers to no avail and rockers that we have rejected complete with felt tip pen markings only for them to turn up in another batch at a later date, I kid you not.
The steel rocker arms are fine, although they do not look anything very special and are pretty much indestructible, the huge problem with them is that they vary greatly from one rocker to another in the relationship between the pad and the cup for the pushrod. They need to be selectively assembled. We buy a couple of hundred at the time and reject anything that is off limits and batch the rest. The reality being that the supplier will then supply the rejects to others!
Our preference is to measure and inspect the original oem rockers, measure the bore and determine that the cup and pad are in good condition and reface. This results in a much more consistent engine build. We top up as and when require with steel rockers when we run short. We sell matched sets through our online store.
BRITPART pushrods are excellent as to hydraulic lifters, do not know what they sell similarly Allmakes rockershafts, do not know what they sell.
We supply the Delphi oem lifters and oem rocker shafts and oem camshafts for that matter. There is an important relationship between the lifters and the camshafts in that the crown radius (the lifter is not flat although described as flat tappets) needs to be to the correct specification to work with the camshaft lobe which is slightly tapered when viewed from the side. This results in the correct rotation of the lifter which does not always occur with non original lifters. You can still have problems with oem camshaft and lifters but this is more to do with lubrication, oil degradation and/or oil contamination which is quite rare.
Rocker posts and washer can be re used unless damaged.
I would recommend you buy all the camshaft equipment from one source to reduce the probability of unnecessary problems. You will appreciate with the best will in the world wholesale companies are not privy to the technical information and experience of engine builders. We find despite the feedback we give to suppliers including land rover that they are not particularly good listeners when you give well founded feedback. We have tried on numerous occasions to educate the importers of the steel rockers to no avail and rockers that we have rejected complete with felt tip pen markings only for them to turn up in another batch at a later date, I kid you not.
#26
08-01-2016, 05:43 PM
Found a great shop - Autosport Seattle | Full Service Machine Shop and Parts - he's done hundreds of land rover blocks, including top hats, the whole deal. They do all the work for the local LR dealer. He's quoting about $400 to check the heads out and make sure they're good - and $400 for the block. Seems kind of high to check them out -- or did he mean $400 to have the heads fully done... I'm not sure. crank polish is $45, turned is $75. Top hats are $1200 in labor + sleeves.
Sort of at a crossroads here... do I take in a perfectly good (as far as I know, I've only driven it 100 miles) heads and block to spend $800 for a clean, valve seals, cam bearing install, and clean bill of health? If I go that route, I have a feeling I'll bite on the top hats, haha.
I want to drive this rover for many years to come. I don't want to open the engine up again for many years to come, either. Even if I became a millionaire, I'd still drive this truck. Thoughts anyone?
Sort of at a crossroads here... do I take in a perfectly good (as far as I know, I've only driven it 100 miles) heads and block to spend $800 for a clean, valve seals, cam bearing install, and clean bill of health? If I go that route, I have a feeling I'll bite on the top hats, haha.
I want to drive this rover for many years to come. I don't want to open the engine up again for many years to come, either. Even if I became a millionaire, I'd still drive this truck. Thoughts anyone?
#27
08-02-2016, 09:15 AM
#28
08-02-2016, 09:28 AM
Camel Trophy
I meant OEM style, my bad. I've got the same lifters you do. Those are correct.
A port and polish is when someone actually grinds out the intake and exhaust ports on the head so they're larger and then polishes them up so they flow better and you get more air. A machine shop will do a really nice job on this, but you'll pay a few hundred dollars for it. If you have a die grinder you can also buy a kit and do it yourself. It wont turn out quite as nice, but it will still help. There are probably tutorials online for how to do it correctly.
A port and polish is when someone actually grinds out the intake and exhaust ports on the head so they're larger and then polishes them up so they flow better and you get more air. A machine shop will do a really nice job on this, but you'll pay a few hundred dollars for it. If you have a die grinder you can also buy a kit and do it yourself. It wont turn out quite as nice, but it will still help. There are probably tutorials online for how to do it correctly.
#29
08-02-2016, 09:36 AM
I want to drive this rover for many years to come. I don't want to open the engine up again for many years to come, either. Even if I became a millionaire, I'd still drive this truck. Thoughts anyone?
#30
08-02-2016, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the tips. His price for top hats seems right - I've heard the guys in LA charge $1500 labor. Regardless, I will need to shop around a bit more and get confirmation on the work for that $400. It seems my only options for shops though are a $35 ferry ride each way - sucks.
If top-hats only come into play in the event of an overheat... I think I can do without them for now. I'm already putting in a 180 OEM Thermostat, brand new Nissens radiator, new coolant hoses, etc plus I have an ultragauge and also a hardwired coolant temp sensor fixed into the upper radiator hose w/ a crazy loud alarm. And before any of those upgrades, temps were stable @ a max of 205 while idling for 10 mins on a hot 75F day.
If top-hats only come into play in the event of an overheat... I think I can do without them for now. I'm already putting in a 180 OEM Thermostat, brand new Nissens radiator, new coolant hoses, etc plus I have an ultragauge and also a hardwired coolant temp sensor fixed into the upper radiator hose w/ a crazy loud alarm. And before any of those upgrades, temps were stable @ a max of 205 while idling for 10 mins on a hot 75F day.