Off to see an '03....
#51
09-16-2014, 08:35 PM
Recovery Vehicle
Is this clip sound any good?
Knocking noise. Disco '04 on Vimeo
Knocking noise. Disco '04 on Vimeo
Your clip was at idle but, a slipped sleeve starts moving after it's warmed up and increases with rpm.
If it starts ticking immediately from a stone cold (like overnight) start, then it could be a lifter or exhaust leak or something else.
They wouldn't have been doing pressure tests and all on that engine if there wasn't a problem so, it has a problem.
Could be loosing a tiny bit of coolant into a cylinder which will only get worse. That could be the reason for no signs of coolant outside of the engine. These things do crack behind the liners and get tiny pin holes in the liners as well.
As nice as that truck looks, I would still run away.
If you could find one that nice for cheap you could put a new flanged liner long block in and be good to go.
Last edited by RicketyTick; 09-17-2014 at 09:11 AM.
#52
09-17-2014, 12:03 PM
They do slip! They don't fall as they did in the old days.
If everything had been done correctly they couldn't slip but, when the liners were put in at the factory, some weren't pressed all the way down like they were supposed to be, before they were machined flush at the top.
This left a 1/8" to 1/4" gap at the bottom seat. Now, once the engines gets overheated, the liners loose their grip and move down that distance and then back up to the head at the speed of the piston until the piston is moving too fast for the liner to keep up and the ticking stops. Once this happens it can tick Intermittingly and usually doesn't show itself until the engine is up to operating temps after the metals expand and not at cold start up .
I've personally observed liners sitting high in a block. Not higher than the deck surface but not seated correctly with a 1/8" gap at the bottom so, I know it does happen.
If you have the oil pan off of one and look at the bottoms of all of the sleeves and can see any of the smooth surface where the block was machined for the sleeve then that sleeve was not pressed all of the way home before it was decked at the top.
That's one reason companies make flanged liners, like land rover should have done to start with.
If everything had been done correctly they couldn't slip but, when the liners were put in at the factory, some weren't pressed all the way down like they were supposed to be, before they were machined flush at the top.
This left a 1/8" to 1/4" gap at the bottom seat. Now, once the engines gets overheated, the liners loose their grip and move down that distance and then back up to the head at the speed of the piston until the piston is moving too fast for the liner to keep up and the ticking stops. Once this happens it can tick Intermittingly and usually doesn't show itself until the engine is up to operating temps after the metals expand and not at cold start up .
I've personally observed liners sitting high in a block. Not higher than the deck surface but not seated correctly with a 1/8" gap at the bottom so, I know it does happen.
If you have the oil pan off of one and look at the bottoms of all of the sleeves and can see any of the smooth surface where the block was machined for the sleeve then that sleeve was not pressed all of the way home before it was decked at the top.
That's one reason companies make flanged liners, like land rover should have done to start with.
RicketyTick:
Would you be so kind as to share your credentials with the forum readers? I see nothing in your personal profile and you've been on this forum for a mere six months, although you post many comments. Your assessment on this topic is in conflict with one of the more highly regarded experts on these particular engines (John Robison), so I'm thinking it's only right you divulge the background from which you derive your claimed expertise.
Thank you!
#53
09-17-2014, 12:36 PM
Recovery Vehicle
RicketyTick:
Would you be so kind as to share your credentials with the forum readers? I see nothing in your personal profile and you've been on this forum for a mere six months, although you post many comments. Your assessment on this topic is in conflict with one of the more highly regarded experts on these particular engines (John Robison), so I'm thinking it's only right you divulge the background from which you derive your claimed expertise.
Thank you!
Would you be so kind as to share your credentials with the forum readers? I see nothing in your personal profile and you've been on this forum for a mere six months, although you post many comments. Your assessment on this topic is in conflict with one of the more highly regarded experts on these particular engines (John Robison), so I'm thinking it's only right you divulge the background from which you derive your claimed expertise.
Thank you!
Your probably right there's probably no such thing.
Last edited by RicketyTick; 09-17-2014 at 12:59 PM.
#54
09-17-2014, 02:47 PM
Not in all cases
Sounds like a sleeve moving to me.
Your clip was at idle but, a slipped sleeve starts moving after it's warmed up and increases with rpm.
If it starts ticking immediately from a stone cold (like overnight) start, then it could be a lifter or exhaust leak or something else.
They wouldn't have been doing pressure tests and all on that engine if there wasn't a problem so, it has a problem.
Could be loosing a tiny bit of coolant into a cylinder which will only get worse. That could be the reason for no signs of coolant outside of the engine. These things do crack behind the liners and get tiny pin holes in the liners as well.
As nice as that truck looks, I would still run away.
If you could find one that nice for cheap you could put a new flanged liner long block in and be good to go.
Your clip was at idle but, a slipped sleeve starts moving after it's warmed up and increases with rpm.
If it starts ticking immediately from a stone cold (like overnight) start, then it could be a lifter or exhaust leak or something else.
They wouldn't have been doing pressure tests and all on that engine if there wasn't a problem so, it has a problem.
Could be loosing a tiny bit of coolant into a cylinder which will only get worse. That could be the reason for no signs of coolant outside of the engine. These things do crack behind the liners and get tiny pin holes in the liners as well.
As nice as that truck looks, I would still run away.
If you could find one that nice for cheap you could put a new flanged liner long block in and be good to go.
As this vehicle seems to be internally consuming coolant, your diagnosis MAY be the case, but I do not believe it to be on my vehicle, as mine does NOT overheat nor consume coolant:
"What he (RicketyTick) says is correct, that some liners were not pressed in all the way at the factory, and they can therefore move up and down a bit.
We have seen a few motors like that, but most of the time the problem is cracks (in the liners), just as my article describes.
We have generally found the ticking to come from worn piston skirts or wrists pins. A steel liner moving up and down in an aluminum block would wear through the head gasket and fail quite rapidly. People often imagine liner movement to be the source of their noise, but I doubt that can be the case, because it would fail totally in very short order, whereas piston wear can last for years."
-John Robison
J E Robison Service
#55
09-17-2014, 05:54 PM
Recovery Vehicle
As this vehicle seems to be internally consuming coolant, your diagnosis MAY be the case, but I do not believe it to be on my vehicle, as mine does NOT overheat nor consume coolant:
"What he (RicketyTick) says is correct, that some liners were not pressed in all the way at the factory, and they can therefore move up and down a bit.
We have seen a few motors like that, but most of the time the problem is cracks (in the liners), just as my article describes.
We have generally found the ticking to come from worn piston skirts or wrists pins. A steel liner moving up and down in an aluminum block would wear through the head gasket and fail quite rapidly. People often imagine liner movement to be the source of their noise, but I doubt that can be the case, because it would fail totally in very short order, whereas piston wear can last for years."
-John Robison
J E Robison Service
"What he (RicketyTick) says is correct, that some liners were not pressed in all the way at the factory, and they can therefore move up and down a bit.
We have seen a few motors like that, but most of the time the problem is cracks (in the liners), just as my article describes.
We have generally found the ticking to come from worn piston skirts or wrists pins. A steel liner moving up and down in an aluminum block would wear through the head gasket and fail quite rapidly. People often imagine liner movement to be the source of their noise, but I doubt that can be the case, because it would fail totally in very short order, whereas piston wear can last for years."
-John Robison
J E Robison Service
An engine does not have to be overheating at the time of the tick, but usually overheated in the past and resulted in a sleeve (the ones not pressed all the way down) to loose their grip and start to move up and down.
Sleeves can move without a coolant leak.... a cracked block or cracked sleeve or pin hole in the sleeve are what cause the internal leaking.... a slipping sleeve and a cracked block/liner are two different problems which can sometimes be in conjunction and sometimes not.
About piston skirt and wrist pin wear, I'm sure that can be true but, why is it you can move a crank, rods and pistons from a ticker into another block with the liners sitting down where they are supposed to be sitting and the ticking doesn't follow? with same pistons and wrist pins? any ideas on that one?
and how would a 180 grey thermostat cure piston slap or worn wrist pins as that has stopped the ticking in some cases? If the engine runs cooler the block doesn't expand as much and loose liners don't move as much....In SOME cases.
I'm not here to argue with you or john just trying to help the OP from getting screwed but, maybe it would be a healthy debate for another thread....where some others can voice their opinions or experiences without us cluttering up the OP's thread.
Last edited by RicketyTick; 09-18-2014 at 07:31 AM.
#56
09-17-2014, 06:25 PM
Just spent 2 hours with an incredibly good looking '04 with 87,000. S trim, but I can live with that.
Barely a drip of anything from underneath. Drove for 45 minutes. Silky. Intermittent 3 amigos. On and off when I was there. Seller says rear brakes are the cause, but wasn't certain. I found a very loose vacuum tube. (In the side of a black canister, left side, top of engine?)
Very clean carfax. Two owners. First had it very regularly serviced, all bills. Second owner an OCD detail guy.
I think I will do a deal tomorrow. Will let you know.
So nice to find a positive vehicle for sale. After the nonsense I have had to wade through. I've seen about 8 of them. Probably discounted more than that after talking on the phone/ with people.
And I ordered my ultra gauge this morning! Woo.
#57
09-17-2014, 06:46 PM
#58
09-17-2014, 06:51 PM
Any way to confirm it for certain, or is it just one of the things in the system of working through it? I'm happy with 60$ to replace the main suspect.
