Our 2001 Project DII
#61
03-16-2016, 02:54 PM
Stopped at Auto place on the way home for lunch and took pictures of all the codes before I deleted them. Yes, they let me delete them. I told them its a Land Rover, so I will be back tomorrow with more codes. When I got home I cleaned the MAF with CRC MAF cleaner. That thing was filthy. Also cleaned the connector and put some dielectric grease on it.
Then I reached back to all the connections at the coil to twist and make sure they were pushed all the way in. At least two of them needed to get pushed in for the "pop" noise. the coils feel secure but I could only tell the top bolts were tight.I also put a new serpentine belt on.
Started her up and again smooth as silk. Then after about 4 miles it started to run a bit rough again but not too bad. about a mile later check engine light.
I will run the spark tester tonight and the brake clean for vacuum leak test as well.
One additional thing, I have an exhaust leak somewhere. I want to say it is in between the muffler and the cats but not totally sure.
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Then I reached back to all the connections at the coil to twist and make sure they were pushed all the way in. At least two of them needed to get pushed in for the "pop" noise. the coils feel secure but I could only tell the top bolts were tight.I also put a new serpentine belt on.
Started her up and again smooth as silk. Then after about 4 miles it started to run a bit rough again but not too bad. about a mile later check engine light.
I will run the spark tester tonight and the brake clean for vacuum leak test as well.
One additional thing, I have an exhaust leak somewhere. I want to say it is in between the muffler and the cats but not totally sure.
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Last edited by DiscoBuckeye; 03-16-2016 at 03:10 PM.
#62
03-16-2016, 04:08 PM
SO still 4 misfires and general misfires. Reset. Then smooth as silk, then rumbly again with SES light on but not flashing. Also loose exhaust and O2 codes. You don't have a code reader so we have to assume you are still getting misfires (but no flashing SES, thank goodness).
The loose exhaust can cause the engine to run rich or lean and give you 02 codes, so I'd save that for last. It wouldn't give you misfires.
Again it ran smooth as silk, then bad again. You can't read the codes now, but if it was really rumbly with an SES, that is surely misfires. You cleaned the MAF.
There is a caution on cleaning the MAF: the element stays very, very hot, when the ignition is on so if you clean it before it has cooled down it can crack the element. At least, that's what I have been told. I have cleaned my MAF, but only after letting it sit for a few hours. But no reason to assume that the MAF element cracked. A dirty MAF is a bad MAF. So it could still be the MAF, we just don't know.
I've pressed my coil wires too and heard them click. I am not sure whether it makes a difference, but they are designed to do that, so surely they should be clicked. THat may have helped... if you remember which ones you pressed, look at the chart above and see if they go to a problem cylinder.
I am imagining myself in your situation. I still think it is a vacuum leak or the MAF and here's why: It runs good at first. If it was bad plugs or wires or coils, or miswired, it would run bad all of the time. The engine adapts as it goes after the startup routine, considering factors like air density, gas quality, temperature, etc., and starts all over again when it looses electricity long enough that it forgets what was happening before. So if it was me, I would get a new MAF off of amazon. Maybe before doing that, I would try the brake cleaner or smoke test the upper intake (with a cigar, as described on the forums), or at a shop that has a smoke machine (they are expensive).
Since the problems are all over the coils and on both sides of the engine, it likely has something to do with the inputs to the entire engine: fuel (we think the gas is okay and the injectors are too, but that could be all wrong and, if it was, it seems that they would be bad from the get go), electricity (observed working, all plugged in, but there could be bad plugs or wires or coils... possible that they misbehave when they get hot), and air (points to MAF and vac leaks).
On your upper intake, passenger side, at the end of the throttle body intake tube, are two hoses. One goes to the brakes. One goes to the I can't remember, and there is a cap over a small tube underneath. The cap comes off easily when the engine is off, and is sucked to tight when the engine is on. If you start the engine and pull that cap, then engine will run rumbly because that would be a huge vac leak. If you sprayed a tiny bit of brake cleaner in that hole, the engine tempo would change. Okay, after you put that cap back, if you have a vac leak elsewhere, you will hear or feel a change in tempo if you spray brake cleaner SAFELY in the areas shown in the video, among others. Of course this assumes that you are in the golden period at first startup when the engine is running okay otherwise (so you can hear or feel the change in tempo).
You aren't getting a purge valve code, but that could be an issue too, in the AIR/VAC part of the equation.
The loose exhaust can cause the engine to run rich or lean and give you 02 codes, so I'd save that for last. It wouldn't give you misfires.
Again it ran smooth as silk, then bad again. You can't read the codes now, but if it was really rumbly with an SES, that is surely misfires. You cleaned the MAF.
There is a caution on cleaning the MAF: the element stays very, very hot, when the ignition is on so if you clean it before it has cooled down it can crack the element. At least, that's what I have been told. I have cleaned my MAF, but only after letting it sit for a few hours. But no reason to assume that the MAF element cracked. A dirty MAF is a bad MAF. So it could still be the MAF, we just don't know.
I've pressed my coil wires too and heard them click. I am not sure whether it makes a difference, but they are designed to do that, so surely they should be clicked. THat may have helped... if you remember which ones you pressed, look at the chart above and see if they go to a problem cylinder.
I am imagining myself in your situation. I still think it is a vacuum leak or the MAF and here's why: It runs good at first. If it was bad plugs or wires or coils, or miswired, it would run bad all of the time. The engine adapts as it goes after the startup routine, considering factors like air density, gas quality, temperature, etc., and starts all over again when it looses electricity long enough that it forgets what was happening before. So if it was me, I would get a new MAF off of amazon. Maybe before doing that, I would try the brake cleaner or smoke test the upper intake (with a cigar, as described on the forums), or at a shop that has a smoke machine (they are expensive).
Since the problems are all over the coils and on both sides of the engine, it likely has something to do with the inputs to the entire engine: fuel (we think the gas is okay and the injectors are too, but that could be all wrong and, if it was, it seems that they would be bad from the get go), electricity (observed working, all plugged in, but there could be bad plugs or wires or coils... possible that they misbehave when they get hot), and air (points to MAF and vac leaks).
On your upper intake, passenger side, at the end of the throttle body intake tube, are two hoses. One goes to the brakes. One goes to the I can't remember, and there is a cap over a small tube underneath. The cap comes off easily when the engine is off, and is sucked to tight when the engine is on. If you start the engine and pull that cap, then engine will run rumbly because that would be a huge vac leak. If you sprayed a tiny bit of brake cleaner in that hole, the engine tempo would change. Okay, after you put that cap back, if you have a vac leak elsewhere, you will hear or feel a change in tempo if you spray brake cleaner SAFELY in the areas shown in the video, among others. Of course this assumes that you are in the golden period at first startup when the engine is running okay otherwise (so you can hear or feel the change in tempo).
You aren't getting a purge valve code, but that could be an issue too, in the AIR/VAC part of the equation.
Last edited by Charlie_V; 03-16-2016 at 04:11 PM.
#63
03-16-2016, 04:22 PM
SO still 4 misfires and general misfires. Reset. Then smooth as silk, then rumbly again with SES light on but not flashing. Also loose exhaust and O2 codes. You don't have a code reader so we have to assume you are still getting misfires (but no flashing SES, thank goodness).
The loose exhaust can cause the engine to run rich or lean and give you 02 codes, so I'd save that for last. It wouldn't give you misfires.
Again it ran smooth as silk, then bad again. You can't read the codes now, but if it was really rumbly with an SES, that is surely misfires. You cleaned the MAF.
There is a caution on cleaning the MAF: the element stays very, very hot, when the ignition is on so if you clean it before it has cooled down it can crack the element. At least, that's what I have been told. I have cleaned my MAF, but only after letting it sit for a few hours. But no reason to assume that the MAF element cracked. A dirty MAF is a bad MAF. So it could still be the MAF, we just don't know.
I've pressed my coil wires too and heard them click. I am not sure whether it makes a difference, but they are designed to do that, so surely they should be clicked. THat may have helped... if you remember which ones you pressed, look at the chart above and see if they go to a problem cylinder.
I am imagining myself in your situation. I still think it is a vacuum leak or the MAF and here's why: It runs good at first. If it was bad plugs or wires or coils, or miswired, it would run bad all of the time. The engine adapts as it goes after the startup routine, considering factors like air density, gas quality, temperature, etc., and starts all over again when it looses electricity long enough that it forgets what was happening before. So if it was me, I would get a new MAF off of amazon. Maybe before doing that, I would try the brake cleaner or smoke test the upper intake (with a cigar, as described on the forums), or at a shop that has a smoke machine (they are expensive).
Since the problems are all over the coils and on both sides of the engine, it likely has something to do with the inputs to the entire engine: fuel (we think the gas is okay and the injectors are too, but that could be all wrong and, if it was, it seems that they would be bad from the get go), electricity (observed working, all plugged in, but there could be bad plugs or wires or coils... possible that they misbehave when they get hot), and air (points to MAF and vac leaks).
On your upper intake, passenger side, at the end of the throttle body intake tube, are two hoses. One goes to the brakes. One goes to the I can't remember, and there is a cap over a small tube underneath. The cap comes off easily when the engine is off, and is sucked to tight when the engine is on. If you start the engine and pull that cap, then engine will run rumbly because that would be a huge vac leak. If you sprayed a tiny bit of brake cleaner in that hole, the engine tempo would change. Okay, after you put that cap back, if you have a vac leak elsewhere, you will hear or feel a change in tempo if you spray brake cleaner SAFELY in the areas shown in the video, among others. Of course this assumes that you are in the golden period at first startup when the engine is running okay otherwise (so you can hear or feel the change in tempo).
You aren't getting a purge valve code, but that could be an issue too, in the AIR/VAC part of the equation.
The loose exhaust can cause the engine to run rich or lean and give you 02 codes, so I'd save that for last. It wouldn't give you misfires.
Again it ran smooth as silk, then bad again. You can't read the codes now, but if it was really rumbly with an SES, that is surely misfires. You cleaned the MAF.
There is a caution on cleaning the MAF: the element stays very, very hot, when the ignition is on so if you clean it before it has cooled down it can crack the element. At least, that's what I have been told. I have cleaned my MAF, but only after letting it sit for a few hours. But no reason to assume that the MAF element cracked. A dirty MAF is a bad MAF. So it could still be the MAF, we just don't know.
I've pressed my coil wires too and heard them click. I am not sure whether it makes a difference, but they are designed to do that, so surely they should be clicked. THat may have helped... if you remember which ones you pressed, look at the chart above and see if they go to a problem cylinder.
I am imagining myself in your situation. I still think it is a vacuum leak or the MAF and here's why: It runs good at first. If it was bad plugs or wires or coils, or miswired, it would run bad all of the time. The engine adapts as it goes after the startup routine, considering factors like air density, gas quality, temperature, etc., and starts all over again when it looses electricity long enough that it forgets what was happening before. So if it was me, I would get a new MAF off of amazon. Maybe before doing that, I would try the brake cleaner or smoke test the upper intake (with a cigar, as described on the forums), or at a shop that has a smoke machine (they are expensive).
Since the problems are all over the coils and on both sides of the engine, it likely has something to do with the inputs to the entire engine: fuel (we think the gas is okay and the injectors are too, but that could be all wrong and, if it was, it seems that they would be bad from the get go), electricity (observed working, all plugged in, but there could be bad plugs or wires or coils... possible that they misbehave when they get hot), and air (points to MAF and vac leaks).
On your upper intake, passenger side, at the end of the throttle body intake tube, are two hoses. One goes to the brakes. One goes to the I can't remember, and there is a cap over a small tube underneath. The cap comes off easily when the engine is off, and is sucked to tight when the engine is on. If you start the engine and pull that cap, then engine will run rumbly because that would be a huge vac leak. If you sprayed a tiny bit of brake cleaner in that hole, the engine tempo would change. Okay, after you put that cap back, if you have a vac leak elsewhere, you will hear or feel a change in tempo if you spray brake cleaner SAFELY in the areas shown in the video, among others. Of course this assumes that you are in the golden period at first startup when the engine is running okay otherwise (so you can hear or feel the change in tempo).
You aren't getting a purge valve code, but that could be an issue too, in the AIR/VAC part of the equation.
It is much better than it was pre MAF clean. I did take entire MAF out and set it down for a bit (by accident. having ADHD and a shiny thing goes by and I'm distracted for a bit).
The three tubes on the upper intake pass side, i noticed some epoxy on the top one closest to the firewall. That will be a spray location.
Is the purge valve under the idle air controller? If yes, the line that runs towards the firewall has multiple cracks in the rubber hose. I don't know if they are just surface or completely through the hose.
Gas is at a quarter of a tank. I was going to wait for empty but should I fill it up now to eliminate the bad gas issue or wait???
#64
03-16-2016, 04:28 PM
Yes, when it is cold it runs really well then something goes awry.
It is much better than it was pre MAF clean. I did take entire MAF out and set it down for a bit (by accident. having ADHD and a shiny thing goes by and I'm distracted for a bit).
The three tubes on the upper intake pass side, i noticed some epoxy on the top one closest to the firewall. That will be a spray location.
Is the purge valve under the idle air controller? If yes, the line that runs towards the firewall has multiple cracks in the rubber hose. I don't know if they are just surface or completely through the hose.
Gas is at a quarter of a tank. I was going to wait for empty but should I fill it up now to eliminate the bad gas issue or wait???
It is much better than it was pre MAF clean. I did take entire MAF out and set it down for a bit (by accident. having ADHD and a shiny thing goes by and I'm distracted for a bit).
The three tubes on the upper intake pass side, i noticed some epoxy on the top one closest to the firewall. That will be a spray location.
Is the purge valve under the idle air controller? If yes, the line that runs towards the firewall has multiple cracks in the rubber hose. I don't know if they are just surface or completely through the hose.
Gas is at a quarter of a tank. I was going to wait for empty but should I fill it up now to eliminate the bad gas issue or wait???
That cracked hose could be an issue. A big one. I didn't even think of that because you haven't had a code. slap duct tape on that hose and see what it does. But yeah, that hose needs to be replaced.
#65
03-17-2016, 07:52 AM
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuVYmVNv8_A"/url]
I have no idea how to embed a video here
Last edited by DiscoBuckeye; 03-17-2016 at 07:58 AM. Reason: New forum for me so embedding video is differnet
#66
03-17-2016, 08:10 AM
OK here is my video. I wonder if I should have let the idle come down before I sprayed? 45 degrees here this morning. Also, Charlie I noticed you also used the Non-flammable CRC brake clean as well
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuVYmVNv8_A"/url]
I have no idea how to embed a video here
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuVYmVNv8_A"/url]
I have no idea how to embed a video here
Okay, that exhaust leak is a little loud. Honestly, your connections look good on the side of the intake. My choice of brake cleaner was unfortunate. I'm not sure that would work since the idea is to get something flammable sucked into the intake through a vac leak. Ugh. I owe you a can of brake cleaner.
Last edited by Charlie_V; 03-17-2016 at 08:18 AM.
#70
03-17-2016, 09:30 PM
so I did the spark test tonight. Live the spark did really not show any different
On video some look pretty erratic(I think). I went from front to back starting with 1 3 5 7 then 2 4 6 8. Scanner recorded mis fires with 5 2 6 8.
Please share your thoughts. She seems to be running better since I filler her up with fresh Premium fuel (93 Octane). Still not great unless she is cold. Then she is much smoother.
The video
On video some look pretty erratic(I think). I went from front to back starting with 1 3 5 7 then 2 4 6 8. Scanner recorded mis fires with 5 2 6 8.
Please share your thoughts. She seems to be running better since I filler her up with fresh Premium fuel (93 Octane). Still not great unless she is cold. Then she is much smoother.
The video