The overheating continues
#11
05-31-2013, 11:15 AM
Never drive with defective parts or even attempt to run it.
Bad things happen.
When you put the A/C on - you should get an AUX fan starting.
That needs to be fixed as it will come on when you go above
210 Degrees - no matter what.
Your fan clutch - replace it with a Hayden HD clutch.
You may also want to replace your radiator.
I have done all the above and I don't even run a gauge in my truck now.
If I pull into a parking lot with the A/C off and I have a fan running, then
I have trouble.
That is how I figure out the health of the cooling system.
Of course, the ultra gauge is nice too.
Good luck.
Bad things happen.
When you put the A/C on - you should get an AUX fan starting.
That needs to be fixed as it will come on when you go above
210 Degrees - no matter what.
Your fan clutch - replace it with a Hayden HD clutch.
You may also want to replace your radiator.
I have done all the above and I don't even run a gauge in my truck now.
If I pull into a parking lot with the A/C off and I have a fan running, then
I have trouble.
That is how I figure out the health of the cooling system.
Of course, the ultra gauge is nice too.
Good luck.
#12
05-31-2013, 11:19 AM
Now all I need is a new radiator, new AC fan, Heater core, 37 hoses, and a shetland pony...
#13
05-31-2013, 11:36 AM
Thanks for the checklist Buzz. I'll go thorugh all of this tonight.
This is what I do know.
2a. No white smoke out of tailpipe.
2b. No water in oil (or milky oil)
3. Serp belt is good. Double checked the routing.
4. Paper towel does suck against grille
12. Temps read w/UltraGauge
13. No waterfall under the dash (anymore that is)
This is what I do know.
2a. No white smoke out of tailpipe.
2b. No water in oil (or milky oil)
3. Serp belt is good. Double checked the routing.
4. Paper towel does suck against grille
12. Temps read w/UltraGauge
13. No waterfall under the dash (anymore that is)
#14
05-31-2013, 05:16 PM
My point was:
In lieu of an Ultra gauge - I pull into a parking space with the A/C off.
And, if the AUX fan is running, then the system is over 210 degrees F and
getting hot.
Having the A/C on turns on the AUX fan regardless. So, my test is - A/C off
to see if the fan keeps running at idle in the parking lot.
Since i replaced EVERYTHING in the cooling system - except the water pump - so far, there have been no further problems, overheating and all that.
I did each of these piecemeal and the thing that made the largest difference for me was the 180 degree stat.
Before I fixed the cooling system, I went into a parking lot and with the A/C off in the Seattle winter, I heard the AUX cooling fan running.
That did not make me too happy.
Refusing to replace all this stuff - will earn you overheating.
These trucks are going on 15 years old in some cases, so this is to be expected.
In lieu of an Ultra gauge - I pull into a parking space with the A/C off.
And, if the AUX fan is running, then the system is over 210 degrees F and
getting hot.
Having the A/C on turns on the AUX fan regardless. So, my test is - A/C off
to see if the fan keeps running at idle in the parking lot.
Since i replaced EVERYTHING in the cooling system - except the water pump - so far, there have been no further problems, overheating and all that.
I did each of these piecemeal and the thing that made the largest difference for me was the 180 degree stat.
Before I fixed the cooling system, I went into a parking lot and with the A/C off in the Seattle winter, I heard the AUX cooling fan running.
That did not make me too happy.
Refusing to replace all this stuff - will earn you overheating.
These trucks are going on 15 years old in some cases, so this is to be expected.
#15
05-31-2013, 09:56 PM
Cooling System Diagnosis 101
1. Got coolant that is not dropping in level when checked at cold start every day? (No leaks) No visible leaks?
2a Got white smoke out tail pipe after warm up? (Head gaskets)
2b Got water in oil (head gaskets)
2c Got oil in coolant reserve bottle? (head gaskets)
3. Serpantine belt route correct and no squealing? (water pump don't wanna run backwards)
4. Paper towel will get sucked against the grille? (fan blades on right direction)
5. Radiator temp when warmed up within 10F top to bottom? (not packed with sludge)
6. Good quality thermostat tested in pot on stove before install? (open at wrong temp)
7. Hoses not swelled like sausages (rotten, full of water inside the rubber, about to pop), hoses not rock hard (from steam pressure)?
8. Coolant not Dexcool? (Turns to mud with poor service by others)
9. Coolant cap holding pressure? (still has pressure when you take cap off for cold system inspection, a paper towel zip tied to the overflow line stays dry, no coolant loss)
10. Electric fan runs when it should, spins freely, has good fuse and relay.
11. Fan clutch when warmed up, spun, released, coasts to a stop in well under 1 revolution.
12. Temps read with scanner, not guessed at with the "keep dreaming" factory heat gauge?
13. No sounds like gurgles and bubbles in pipes under dash when driving? (air or exhaust gas in coolant).
Most coolant system testing requires no special tools. If you have a D1 you can have the radiator rodded out and acid flushed. On a D2, owner manual says change coolant every 2 years or 30,000 miles. So if you have a Disco 2 with 120,000 miles, has the coolant been changed four times? If the Disco is 12 years old, has it been changed six times? No? Well then the possibility of a radiator flush doing much is also greatly diminished.
1. Got coolant that is not dropping in level when checked at cold start every day? (No leaks) No visible leaks?
2a Got white smoke out tail pipe after warm up? (Head gaskets)
2b Got water in oil (head gaskets)
2c Got oil in coolant reserve bottle? (head gaskets)
3. Serpantine belt route correct and no squealing? (water pump don't wanna run backwards)
4. Paper towel will get sucked against the grille? (fan blades on right direction)
5. Radiator temp when warmed up within 10F top to bottom? (not packed with sludge)
6. Good quality thermostat tested in pot on stove before install? (open at wrong temp)
7. Hoses not swelled like sausages (rotten, full of water inside the rubber, about to pop), hoses not rock hard (from steam pressure)?
8. Coolant not Dexcool? (Turns to mud with poor service by others)
9. Coolant cap holding pressure? (still has pressure when you take cap off for cold system inspection, a paper towel zip tied to the overflow line stays dry, no coolant loss)
10. Electric fan runs when it should, spins freely, has good fuse and relay.
11. Fan clutch when warmed up, spun, released, coasts to a stop in well under 1 revolution.
12. Temps read with scanner, not guessed at with the "keep dreaming" factory heat gauge?
13. No sounds like gurgles and bubbles in pipes under dash when driving? (air or exhaust gas in coolant).
Most coolant system testing requires no special tools. If you have a D1 you can have the radiator rodded out and acid flushed. On a D2, owner manual says change coolant every 2 years or 30,000 miles. So if you have a Disco 2 with 120,000 miles, has the coolant been changed four times? If the Disco is 12 years old, has it been changed six times? No? Well then the possibility of a radiator flush doing much is also greatly diminished.
Allright Buzz... Here we are.
1. Got coolant that is not dropping in level when checked at cold start every day? (No leaks) No visible leaks? -- I ran an hour long test... I have two leaks coming from the radiator area. Facing the truck, one significant leak (minor stream) dropping from just left of center of the radiator, and one minor leak coming from the right side of the t radiator.
2a Got white smoke out tail pipe after warm up? (Head gaskets) -None
2b Got water in oil (head gaskets) -None
2c Got oil in coolant reserve bottle? (head gaskets) -None visible.
3. Serpantine belt route correct and no squealing? (water pump don't wanna run backwards) -- Routed correctly.
4. Paper towel will get sucked against the grille? (fan blades on right direction)-- Paper sucks to radiator
5. Radiator temp when warmed up within 10F top to bottom? (not packed with sludge) -- Can't test, but radiator looks sludged... see accompanying video.
6. Good quality thermostat tested in pot on stove before install? (open at wrong temp) -- My thermometer won't go higher than 110F... Poor test, but using new 180F T-Stat.
7. Hoses not swelled like sausages (rotten, full of water inside the rubber, about to pop), hoses not rock hard (from steam pressure)?-- Hoses visibly fine.. no sausages here.. none rock hard.
8. Coolant not Dexcool? (Turns to mud with poor service by others) Using Coolant... Previously used Peak Green 50/50.. ran out of coolant... could not find more Peak Green 50/50/... had to settle for Peak 50/50 "mixes with all colors"
9. Coolant cap holding pressure? (still has pressure when you take cap off for cold system inspection, a paper towel zip tied to the overflow line stays dry, no coolant loss) -- Did not test
10. Electric fan runs when it should, spins freely, has good fuse and relay.-- Electric fan did not come on during hour test... AC on 50% of the time... Hit 212F did not come on... After driving arount at 20-40MPH for 10 min, parked the truck temps rose to 217F, 221F, 224F Fan never cam on.
11. Fan clutch when warmed up, spun, released, coasts to a stop in well under 1 revolution. -- Good, new fan.
12. Temps read with scanner, not guessed at with the "keep dreaming" factory heat gauge? -- Ultra Guage
13. No sounds like gurgles and bubbles in pipes under dash when driving? (air or exhaust gas in coolant). -- Parked after driving ... Temps increased to 224F... No Waterfall sound from the dash, but did notice a faint gurgle coming from behind the CDL decal.
Most coolant system testing requires no special tools. If you have a D1 you can have the radiator rodded out and acid flushed. On a D2, owner manual says change coolant every 2 years or 30,000 miles. So if you have a Disco 2 with 120,000 miles, has the coolant been changed four times? If the Disco is 12 years old, has it been changed six times? No? Well then the possibility of a radiator flush doing much is also greatly diminished. -- I have a D2.. Owned since May 2011. I have changed coolant 3 times now.. no records from PO.
#16
05-31-2013, 10:15 PM
Ok, this evening I did a 1 hour temp test after bleeding the system again. Here's what I found...
Conditions: 72F outside.. Hood Up... AC on MAX... Idling.. no throttle
2 min - 120F
4 min - 149F
6 min - 172F
8 min - 188F
10 min - 199F
12 min - 201F
14 min - 204F
16 min - 206F
18 min - 204F
20 min - 204F
Intermittent acceleration..
22 min - 206F
24 min - 204F
Dropped AC fan to "two bars"
26 min - 206F
28 min - 204F
AC off.... back to idle
30 min - 204F
33 min - 204F
---
Began driving around neighborhood for 10-15 min @ 20-40 MPH...
Temps went back and forth between 206-210F... Sniffed 212F a few times, but went back to 210 before I could stop to get out to see if the electric fan had come on..
Parked truck at minute 55.
55 min - 224F
AC off
59 min 226F
Tried to give the truck time to idle and temps to come back down, but they didn't drop below 224F, finally turned it off..
Popped the hood, and heard a whistling sound, could not locate for quite awhile... was coming from the area that the top radiator hose enters the radiator... was spraying a faint, light mist. Not from the hose, but the radiator (i think).
I took a video, while locating the whistling sound, and looking at my radiator.... Radiator looks clogged up, so I'm assuming that is the culprit. -- I wil post this once it uploads to YouTube.
Also, the electric fan did not come on at any temp.. hoping it's a blown fuse, but if not it looks like I'll be replacing my radiator AND AC fan... There goes the new drive shaft that I was going to buy next week.
Let me know your thoughts.
Thank you for all of your help!
Conditions: 72F outside.. Hood Up... AC on MAX... Idling.. no throttle
2 min - 120F
4 min - 149F
6 min - 172F
8 min - 188F
10 min - 199F
12 min - 201F
14 min - 204F
16 min - 206F
18 min - 204F
20 min - 204F
Intermittent acceleration..
22 min - 206F
24 min - 204F
Dropped AC fan to "two bars"
26 min - 206F
28 min - 204F
AC off.... back to idle
30 min - 204F
33 min - 204F
---
Began driving around neighborhood for 10-15 min @ 20-40 MPH...
Temps went back and forth between 206-210F... Sniffed 212F a few times, but went back to 210 before I could stop to get out to see if the electric fan had come on..
Parked truck at minute 55.
55 min - 224F
AC off
59 min 226F
Tried to give the truck time to idle and temps to come back down, but they didn't drop below 224F, finally turned it off..
Popped the hood, and heard a whistling sound, could not locate for quite awhile... was coming from the area that the top radiator hose enters the radiator... was spraying a faint, light mist. Not from the hose, but the radiator (i think).
I took a video, while locating the whistling sound, and looking at my radiator.... Radiator looks clogged up, so I'm assuming that is the culprit. -- I wil post this once it uploads to YouTube.
Also, the electric fan did not come on at any temp.. hoping it's a blown fuse, but if not it looks like I'll be replacing my radiator AND AC fan... There goes the new drive shaft that I was going to buy next week.
Let me know your thoughts.
Thank you for all of your help!
#17
06-01-2013, 07:45 AM
Super Moderator
You are moving in the right direction.
Nothing should be venting or spraying. If it is the radiator, it won't stay fixed long with radiator sealer. Look around screw that goes down into top of radiator.
If radiator "looks" clogged up, are you basing this on external visual exam? Fins need to be clear of mud, leaves, trash. For the whole "sandwich" of radiator, oil cooler(s), and AC condensor.
If the radiator is clogged inside, it usually begins on the bottom rows of the radiator and works up. So if you measure the temperature after warm up, across the fins, top to bottom, in a vertical line, you should not be more than 10F colder on the bottom. Otherwise blockage has begun. If blockage gets up half way in the radiator, it will make cooler air hit the face of the fan clutch, and the clutch won't come back to fully engaged power, low speed and parked cooling will suffer.
If the electric fan came on, it would not make much difference unless you were going under 60 mph. That fan blade should spin very freely. It is controlled by fuse 5 under the hood. The fan relay is is next to the washer relay in the same box and can be swapped. See attached.
Based on your measured temps, I would say that your radiator is something to look at. Also, others with the 180F grey stat (not the moto rad) have posted pix of cooler temps. Like this one below. So if you swap out radiator, may want to try the stat in a boiling pot of water. You are basically operating at 204F at idle, and even if it was an oem stst, that would be "fully open". Which means the stat has done as much control as it can, and there is so much heat it is fully open, hoping the fans will shoulder some of the load.
In summary, if your pin hole leak is a hose, fix it. If the radiator does not show signs of clog (much cooler on bottom), then throwing a new radator in may not be the fix. The problem could be the stat. We have had people post about the opening temp of some aftermarket stats being off. The gray case one that come in a Land Rover box from several of the vendors has not had this complaint.
But if radiator is clogged, it will show up as warmer than it should be under light to moderate loads, and forget it in August with AC on.
Nothing should be venting or spraying. If it is the radiator, it won't stay fixed long with radiator sealer. Look around screw that goes down into top of radiator.
If radiator "looks" clogged up, are you basing this on external visual exam? Fins need to be clear of mud, leaves, trash. For the whole "sandwich" of radiator, oil cooler(s), and AC condensor.
If the radiator is clogged inside, it usually begins on the bottom rows of the radiator and works up. So if you measure the temperature after warm up, across the fins, top to bottom, in a vertical line, you should not be more than 10F colder on the bottom. Otherwise blockage has begun. If blockage gets up half way in the radiator, it will make cooler air hit the face of the fan clutch, and the clutch won't come back to fully engaged power, low speed and parked cooling will suffer.
If the electric fan came on, it would not make much difference unless you were going under 60 mph. That fan blade should spin very freely. It is controlled by fuse 5 under the hood. The fan relay is is next to the washer relay in the same box and can be swapped. See attached.
Based on your measured temps, I would say that your radiator is something to look at. Also, others with the 180F grey stat (not the moto rad) have posted pix of cooler temps. Like this one below. So if you swap out radiator, may want to try the stat in a boiling pot of water. You are basically operating at 204F at idle, and even if it was an oem stst, that would be "fully open". Which means the stat has done as much control as it can, and there is so much heat it is fully open, hoping the fans will shoulder some of the load.
In summary, if your pin hole leak is a hose, fix it. If the radiator does not show signs of clog (much cooler on bottom), then throwing a new radator in may not be the fix. The problem could be the stat. We have had people post about the opening temp of some aftermarket stats being off. The gray case one that come in a Land Rover box from several of the vendors has not had this complaint.
But if radiator is clogged, it will show up as warmer than it should be under light to moderate loads, and forget it in August with AC on.
Last edited by Savannah Buzz; 06-01-2013 at 07:47 AM.
#19
06-01-2013, 03:57 PM
You are moving in the right direction.
Nothing should be venting or spraying. If it is the radiator, it won't stay fixed long with radiator sealer. Look around screw that goes down into top of radiator.
If radiator "looks" clogged up, are you basing this on external visual exam? Fins need to be clear of mud, leaves, trash. For the whole "sandwich" of radiator, oil cooler(s), and AC condensor.
If the radiator is clogged inside, it usually begins on the bottom rows of the radiator and works up. So if you measure the temperature after warm up, across the fins, top to bottom, in a vertical line, you should not be more than 10F colder on the bottom. Otherwise blockage has begun. If blockage gets up half way in the radiator, it will make cooler air hit the face of the fan clutch, and the clutch won't come back to fully engaged power, low speed and parked cooling will suffer.
If the electric fan came on, it would not make much difference unless you were going under 60 mph. That fan blade should spin very freely. It is controlled by fuse 5 under the hood. The fan relay is is next to the washer relay in the same box and can be swapped. See attached.
Based on your measured temps, I would say that your radiator is something to look at. Also, others with the 180F grey stat (not the moto rad) have posted pix of cooler temps. Like this one below. So if you swap out radiator, may want to try the stat in a boiling pot of water. You are basically operating at 204F at idle, and even if it was an oem stst, that would be "fully open". Which means the stat has done as much control as it can, and there is so much heat it is fully open, hoping the fans will shoulder some of the load.
In summary, if your pin hole leak is a hose, fix it. If the radiator does not show signs of clog (much cooler on bottom), then throwing a new radator in may not be the fix. The problem could be the stat. We have had people post about the opening temp of some aftermarket stats being off. The gray case one that come in a Land Rover box from several of the vendors has not had this complaint.
But if radiator is clogged, it will show up as warmer than it should be under light to moderate loads, and forget it in August with AC on.
Nothing should be venting or spraying. If it is the radiator, it won't stay fixed long with radiator sealer. Look around screw that goes down into top of radiator.
If radiator "looks" clogged up, are you basing this on external visual exam? Fins need to be clear of mud, leaves, trash. For the whole "sandwich" of radiator, oil cooler(s), and AC condensor.
If the radiator is clogged inside, it usually begins on the bottom rows of the radiator and works up. So if you measure the temperature after warm up, across the fins, top to bottom, in a vertical line, you should not be more than 10F colder on the bottom. Otherwise blockage has begun. If blockage gets up half way in the radiator, it will make cooler air hit the face of the fan clutch, and the clutch won't come back to fully engaged power, low speed and parked cooling will suffer.
If the electric fan came on, it would not make much difference unless you were going under 60 mph. That fan blade should spin very freely. It is controlled by fuse 5 under the hood. The fan relay is is next to the washer relay in the same box and can be swapped. See attached.
Based on your measured temps, I would say that your radiator is something to look at. Also, others with the 180F grey stat (not the moto rad) have posted pix of cooler temps. Like this one below. So if you swap out radiator, may want to try the stat in a boiling pot of water. You are basically operating at 204F at idle, and even if it was an oem stst, that would be "fully open". Which means the stat has done as much control as it can, and there is so much heat it is fully open, hoping the fans will shoulder some of the load.
In summary, if your pin hole leak is a hose, fix it. If the radiator does not show signs of clog (much cooler on bottom), then throwing a new radator in may not be the fix. The problem could be the stat. We have had people post about the opening temp of some aftermarket stats being off. The gray case one that come in a Land Rover box from several of the vendors has not had this complaint.
But if radiator is clogged, it will show up as warmer than it should be under light to moderate loads, and forget it in August with AC on.
The radiator visually looks dirty, and clogged, debris in the lower center portion of the radiator.
The pin hole is not from a hose, and there is no screw in the the top of the radiator (as in your photo from the previous post). There was no coolant coming from this area either.
I just started the truck again, and within 5-10 minutes temps reached 208F so I killed it.
Am I safe to assume that my head gaskets are safe, for now anyway, and I should direct my attention to the radiator, engine coolers (I have two), and the AC fan?
Also, I was a little confused by the fuse chart. Not sure which fuse it is. Is it F5, R4, or R5?
If I am to replace the radiator, oil coolers, and AC condenser, can you, or anyone else that reads this for that matter recommend quality replacements... I've ready that after market rads are smaller than the original, and "aren't as good" as the original. Not looking to drop $600 on a rad either.
#20
06-01-2013, 11:20 PM
Super Moderator
You should clean out all the trash. But that won't stop the pin hole leak.
A container of radiator / head gasket sealer will, and may buy you some time to save up for a radiator. Junk yard radiators are usually not worth the effort on a D2. Low end radiators start in the 130 -150's, oem quality can be had for about $300. The D1 rad is a lot cheaper than the copper / brass ones on a D1.
As for the fuse confusion I can see why. The circuits schematics show it to be fuse 5 under hood (40 amp). The electrical library fuse layout shows it to be fuse 4. Check them both.
A container of radiator / head gasket sealer will, and may buy you some time to save up for a radiator. Junk yard radiators are usually not worth the effort on a D2. Low end radiators start in the 130 -150's, oem quality can be had for about $300. The D1 rad is a lot cheaper than the copper / brass ones on a D1.
As for the fuse confusion I can see why. The circuits schematics show it to be fuse 5 under hood (40 amp). The electrical library fuse layout shows it to be fuse 4. Check them both.