P38 Calipers on a D2?
#11
12-23-2013, 08:31 PM
#12
12-23-2013, 11:07 PM
The Akebono ceramic pads I installed are the same ones everyone seems to install on these trucks. They are not a race pad. They are likely very similar in composition to the OEM ceramic pads on most new cars so they don't require high heat to bite. My F250 has ceramic pads all around and the brakes are amazing.
Regarding the rotors, slots and dimples (or holes) primarily allow the gases generated across the face of the pad to escape which can help with braking. During braking the pads get hot and any organic matter in them (like what is binding the pad together) turns into a gas. Any gas between the pad and the rotor surface reduces the amount of contact because you are just compressing the gas. The venting of rotors is the main source of cooling, not slots and dimples. You don't really pick up much surface area with the slots and dimples. Of course, if you sweep out the hot gases before the heat is transferred into the rotor then you will improve cooling indirectly.
I realize that typically such measures are of greater benefit on a performance car but I went with the better rotors to try and get these brakes to work as best as they could. I don't agree that the setup I'm using has reduced my braking power. It stops better than it did with the OEM pads (clamping DBA rotors) it had on it when I bought it, but I would like better.
Regarding the rotors, slots and dimples (or holes) primarily allow the gases generated across the face of the pad to escape which can help with braking. During braking the pads get hot and any organic matter in them (like what is binding the pad together) turns into a gas. Any gas between the pad and the rotor surface reduces the amount of contact because you are just compressing the gas. The venting of rotors is the main source of cooling, not slots and dimples. You don't really pick up much surface area with the slots and dimples. Of course, if you sweep out the hot gases before the heat is transferred into the rotor then you will improve cooling indirectly.
I realize that typically such measures are of greater benefit on a performance car but I went with the better rotors to try and get these brakes to work as best as they could. I don't agree that the setup I'm using has reduced my braking power. It stops better than it did with the OEM pads (clamping DBA rotors) it had on it when I bought it, but I would like better.
#13
12-24-2013, 02:26 AM
Overlanding
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HI
I have always stuck with the factory discs and pads. My 2000 V8 tows a double horse trailer, when fully loaded would weigh close to 2 tons and never had any concerns / issues with the brakes performance (except 3 amigos which is another story!!)
runs the std brake lines as well.
I do make sure they are broken in carefully when replaced, and will generally only machine the discs twice before replacing them
I have always stuck with the factory discs and pads. My 2000 V8 tows a double horse trailer, when fully loaded would weigh close to 2 tons and never had any concerns / issues with the brakes performance (except 3 amigos which is another story!!)
runs the std brake lines as well.
I do make sure they are broken in carefully when replaced, and will generally only machine the discs twice before replacing them
#14
12-24-2013, 08:54 AM
Baja
I run as near as standard rotors and pads (TRW) on my TD5 and the brakes lock all round and activate the ABS when needed. My point about higher grade rotors and ceramic pads being is that the calipers, if standard, perform sufficiently to 'grip' the rotors and generate sufficient friction, and hence heat, to have effective brakes. Once a wheel is locked one cannot improve braking unless fitted with ABS to modulate the lock up to avoid losing control. The only inefficiency is when they overheat brakes and they fade or the brake fluid boils in the calipers. I believe it's getting the balance right between friction, efficiency and fade. I grant you there is the issues of pad materials 'out gassing' causing a layer of slippage gas between the pad and rotor.
Years ago I used to brake very hard and late often using and bringing the ABS into play but soon realized it was such a waste of tires, pads and rotors. The problem arises in modern cars is that they are nearly all fitted with ABS to accommodate all drivers and styles and avoid loss of control particularly on rear wheel drive cars. It's another safety feature as much as traction control which if it is set up properly can be better and more efficient than 4 wheel drive on normal cars on wet roads.
Years ago I used to brake very hard and late often using and bringing the ABS into play but soon realized it was such a waste of tires, pads and rotors. The problem arises in modern cars is that they are nearly all fitted with ABS to accommodate all drivers and styles and avoid loss of control particularly on rear wheel drive cars. It's another safety feature as much as traction control which if it is set up properly can be better and more efficient than 4 wheel drive on normal cars on wet roads.
#15
12-24-2013, 09:01 AM
I'm running EBC slotted and dimpled rotors, GD994 in front and GD957 in the rear. I paid around $350 for the set. They are coated so the areas other than the braking surface stay rust free (so far anyway). I'm also running Akebono EUR676 and EUR473 pads.
#16
12-24-2013, 09:07 AM
If the tires on my truck would lock up I would be satisfied but as I said earlier, I can only get the ABS to kick on in the rear and that is on wet pavement. Are you running the stock diameter tire? Going to larger diameter tires has increased the forces at my brakes by about 10% but I should think there would be enough capacity in the system to accommodate that.
#17
12-24-2013, 03:07 PM
Baja
If the tires on my truck would lock up I would be satisfied but as I said earlier, I can only get the ABS to kick on in the rear and that is on wet pavement. Are you running the stock diameter tire? Going to larger diameter tires has increased the forces at my brakes by about 10% but I should think there would be enough capacity in the system to accommodate that.
#18
01-05-2018, 10:28 AM
Yes, it's old
I realize this is 5 years old, but there was never an answer. (US Vehicles, YMMV) P38 rear calipers and Disco 2 rear calipers are the same. Rear discs are the same. P38 front and Disco 2 from 1999-2002 are the same. They have 48mm pistons. 2003-2004 Disco calipers will work fine on either, but they have 45mm pistons. China calipers are cheap, but some are a little off. Rears have been no issue, but the Allmakes STC1915/STC1916 (48mm) fronts hit my Mondial winter wheels on the P38.
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Mntnceguy (09-25-2021)
#19
01-05-2018, 07:23 PM
Ive been thinking about this matter for years now. Ive tried expensive performance kits, cheap duralast kits and now oem genuine kit and nothing seems to improve the braking power. I even went as far as replacing the brake booster, master cylinder and upgraded to stainless steel brake lines. After all that not one bit of noticable improvment. Right now Im driving a small U-Haul GMC box truck and I gotta say that these brakes are amazing ajd very responsive the second you put pressure on the brake pedal. So the technology is available we just need to find a retrofit solution. Maybe sourcing brake calipers and rotors from another make/model with simular wheel size. Either way Im all ears.
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