An SAI question for the braintrust
#1
![Default](https://landroverforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I noticed the other day that when I start the car(first time) that the SAI is only kicking on intermittently. One morning it will come on, another it won't. It has been pretty cold here in the North East US, so I am wondering if the SAI kicks on only when it is warmer out, say above 40*.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
#3
![Default](https://landroverforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Maybe a bad coolant temp sensor or connector?
From RAVE: " "The engine control module (ECM) checks the engine coolant temperature when the engine is started, and if it is below
60º C (131F), the SAI pump is started. Secondary air injection will remain operational for a period controlled by the
ECM (76 seconds for NAS vehicles, 64 seconds for EU-3 vehicles). The SAI pump operation can be cut short due to
excessive engine speed or load."
From RAVE: " "The engine control module (ECM) checks the engine coolant temperature when the engine is started, and if it is below
60º C (131F), the SAI pump is started. Secondary air injection will remain operational for a period controlled by the
ECM (76 seconds for NAS vehicles, 64 seconds for EU-3 vehicles). The SAI pump operation can be cut short due to
excessive engine speed or load."
#5
![Default](https://landroverforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I'm not sure how it is "supposed" to work, but mine only comes on intermittently as well. When it is REALLY cold, it doesn't come on. But then again, I think mines a little messed up, because sometimes even after I have been driving a while, it will come on while I stopped at a light or something.
#6
![Default](https://landroverforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The function of SAI is to add oxygen to the exhaust to make the reaction in the catalytic converters more complete when they are cold. Once the converters get hot, they are more effective and the exhaust is much cleaner. Gasoline engines pollute more after startup than they do for the rest of the time they are running so this system helps alleviate that. The blower should kick on and operate every time the engine starts cold.
#7
![Default](https://landroverforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I checked the connections and they seem fine. Does anyone know which fuse the SAI is associated with? Is it possible that since there is an association between the SAI and the O2 sensors would this be an indicator it is time to replace the O2 sensors? I know that with 104K on the car they are probably due anyway, but since it is so friggin' cold here I have just put it off.
#8
![Default](https://landroverforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I'm not a ton of help here, but it looks like fuse 2 under hood box. Check the relay too.
RAVE:
Secondary air injection system
When the engine is started, the engine control module checks the engine coolant temperature and if it is below 55
C, the ECM grounds the electrical connection to the coil of the secondary air injection (SAI) pump relay.
A 12V battery supply is fed to the inertia switch via fuse 13 in the engine compartment fusebox. When the inertia
switch contacts are closed, the feed passes through the switch and is connected to the coil of the Main relay. An earth
connection from the Main relay coil is connected to the ECM. When the ECM completes the earth path, the coil
energises and closes the contacts of the Main relay.
The Main and Secondary Air Injection (SAI) pump relays are located in the engine compartment fusebox. When the
contacts of the Main relay are closed, a 12V battery supply is fed to the coil of the SAI pump relay. An earth connection
from the coil of the SAI pump relay is connected to the ECM. When the ECM completes the earth path, the coil
energises and closes the contacts of the SAI pump relay to supply 12V to the SAI pump via fusible link 2 in the engine
compartment fusebox. The SAI pump starts to operate, and will continue to do so until the ECM switches off the earth
connection to the coil of the SAI pump relay.
The SAI pump remains operational for a period determined by the ECM and depends on the starting temperature of
the engine, or for a maximum operation period determined by the ECM if the target engine coolant temperature has
not been reached in the usual time.
When the contacts of the main relay are closed, a 12V battery supply is fed to the SAI solenoid valve via Fuse 2 in
the engine compartment fusebox.
The ECM grounds the electrical connection to the SAI vacuum solenoid valve at the same time as it switches on the
SAI pump motor. When the SAI vacuum solenoid valve is energised, a vacuum is provided to the operation control
ports on both of the vacuum operated SAI control valves at the exhaust manifolds. The control vacuum is sourced
from the intake manifold depression and routed to the SAI control valves via a vacuum reservoir and the SAI vacuum
solenoid valve.
The vacuum reservoir is included in the vacuum supply circuit to prevent vacuum fluctuations caused by changes in
the intake manifold depression affecting the operation of the SAI control valves.
When a vacuum is applied to the control ports of the SAI control valves, the valves open to allow pressurised air from
the SAI pump to pass through to the exhaust ports in the cylinder heads for combustion.
When the ECM has determined that the SAI pump has operated for the desired duration, it switches off the earth paths
to the SAI pump relay and the SAI vacuum solenoid valve. With the SAI vacuum solenoid valve de-energised, the
valve closes, cutting off the vacuum supply to the SAI control valves. The SAI control valves close immediately and
completely to prevent any further pressurised air from the SAI pump entering the exhaust manifolds.
The engine coolant temperature sensor incurs a time lag in respect of detecting a change in temperature and the SAI
pump automatically enters a 'soak period' between operations to prevent the SAI pump overheating. The ECM also
compares the switch off and start up temperatures, to determine whether it is necessary to operate the SAI pump.
This prevents the pump running repeatedly and overheating on repeat starts.
Other factors which may prevent or stop SAI pump operation include the prevailing engine speed / load conditions.
RAVE:
Secondary air injection system
When the engine is started, the engine control module checks the engine coolant temperature and if it is below 55
C, the ECM grounds the electrical connection to the coil of the secondary air injection (SAI) pump relay.
A 12V battery supply is fed to the inertia switch via fuse 13 in the engine compartment fusebox. When the inertia
switch contacts are closed, the feed passes through the switch and is connected to the coil of the Main relay. An earth
connection from the Main relay coil is connected to the ECM. When the ECM completes the earth path, the coil
energises and closes the contacts of the Main relay.
The Main and Secondary Air Injection (SAI) pump relays are located in the engine compartment fusebox. When the
contacts of the Main relay are closed, a 12V battery supply is fed to the coil of the SAI pump relay. An earth connection
from the coil of the SAI pump relay is connected to the ECM. When the ECM completes the earth path, the coil
energises and closes the contacts of the SAI pump relay to supply 12V to the SAI pump via fusible link 2 in the engine
compartment fusebox. The SAI pump starts to operate, and will continue to do so until the ECM switches off the earth
connection to the coil of the SAI pump relay.
The SAI pump remains operational for a period determined by the ECM and depends on the starting temperature of
the engine, or for a maximum operation period determined by the ECM if the target engine coolant temperature has
not been reached in the usual time.
When the contacts of the main relay are closed, a 12V battery supply is fed to the SAI solenoid valve via Fuse 2 in
the engine compartment fusebox.
The ECM grounds the electrical connection to the SAI vacuum solenoid valve at the same time as it switches on the
SAI pump motor. When the SAI vacuum solenoid valve is energised, a vacuum is provided to the operation control
ports on both of the vacuum operated SAI control valves at the exhaust manifolds. The control vacuum is sourced
from the intake manifold depression and routed to the SAI control valves via a vacuum reservoir and the SAI vacuum
solenoid valve.
The vacuum reservoir is included in the vacuum supply circuit to prevent vacuum fluctuations caused by changes in
the intake manifold depression affecting the operation of the SAI control valves.
When a vacuum is applied to the control ports of the SAI control valves, the valves open to allow pressurised air from
the SAI pump to pass through to the exhaust ports in the cylinder heads for combustion.
When the ECM has determined that the SAI pump has operated for the desired duration, it switches off the earth paths
to the SAI pump relay and the SAI vacuum solenoid valve. With the SAI vacuum solenoid valve de-energised, the
valve closes, cutting off the vacuum supply to the SAI control valves. The SAI control valves close immediately and
completely to prevent any further pressurised air from the SAI pump entering the exhaust manifolds.
The engine coolant temperature sensor incurs a time lag in respect of detecting a change in temperature and the SAI
pump automatically enters a 'soak period' between operations to prevent the SAI pump overheating. The ECM also
compares the switch off and start up temperatures, to determine whether it is necessary to operate the SAI pump.
This prevents the pump running repeatedly and overheating on repeat starts.
Other factors which may prevent or stop SAI pump operation include the prevailing engine speed / load conditions.
The following users liked this post:
matt3502 (01-17-2015)
#10
![Default](https://landroverforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I just found this little gem in the RAVE for those who care:
The ECM checks the engine coolant temperature when the engine is started in addition to the elapsed time since the
engine was last started. The engine coolant temperature must be below 55°C (131°F) for the SAI pump to run.
NOTE: The ambient air temperature must also be above 8°C (46°F) for the SAI pump to run.
One this it has not been here in the Northeast lately is above 46*
This explains things a little, but bballjames said his was coming on randomly.
The ECM checks the engine coolant temperature when the engine is started in addition to the elapsed time since the
engine was last started. The engine coolant temperature must be below 55°C (131°F) for the SAI pump to run.
NOTE: The ambient air temperature must also be above 8°C (46°F) for the SAI pump to run.
One this it has not been here in the Northeast lately is above 46*
This explains things a little, but bballjames said his was coming on randomly.
Last edited by matt3502; 01-17-2015 at 04:42 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post