..:: The Sudden Not Starting Situation ::..
#11
That Friday had it towed to the first mechanic, the one that said it was a "timing" issue, but I do not know what tests he ran, supposedly he had replaced the CPS sensor, but gave me back the box with no signs of opening it, so I'm sure he didn't ...truck was in his possession for nearly a week and towed it away from him on Saturday to my workplace's parking lot.
Tuesday June 1st, after Memorial Day weekend, I had it towed to a supposedly "savvy" LR shop ....they replaced the CPS sensor and no luck; supposedly checked fuel pump and line, no luck; supposedly checked compression, and only commented on driver side issues; and as you say, although had codes from passenger side, they failed to mention any issues; they only recommended I replaced the engine. I towed it out of there yesterday, Friday 18th back to my workplace's parking lot.
Upon popping up the hood, I see all spark plugs out, they left each set in the space below wipers; old BOSCH CPS sensor was also there; air filter was left disconnected; nothing else was seen.
I'm planning to remove the battery and have it test it and charged... prior to that point I didn't have issues with spark plugs (Champion) or wires (8mm Blue Kingsborne), which were replaced exactly 13 months ago... but I may simply replace just the plugs ....I will buy a new BOSCH CPS Sensor and replace the newly replaced one, just in case ...I will also replace the Coil Packs, which I replaced no more than 4 yrs ago with new BOSCH set, just in case ... I will start here since I have enough experience to tackle this small repairs.
I don't know how to test the fuel pump myself, or see if there are any fuel issues, but I'm hoping that last shop did test it correctly, and will take their word that it is actually working fine. I know that fuel level is pretty low, since I remember gas light coming on the day this all started, but there's enough gas to run for nearly 30 miles, which is the distance I know my reserve will take me before leaving me stranded. This last tank was filled with gas from a gas station that I had never used before (Orion), I usually fuel up in Costco or Chevron using Premium, so the thought of bad gas has crossed my mind.
I hope any of you can shine some light based on all info I've given, and maybe give me pointers where to look.
So far my options are to either figure it out on my own and hopefully get it up and running again, or junk it and try to get myself in a new set of wheels, which I wouldn't want at this point, to get myself in a car loan.
I will await your inputs, thanks in advance, and Happy Father's Days to all Dads that read this! ;-]#
#12
Bad gas is a possibility, but IMO it is at the back of the pack in terms of the cause. I think your issues are with the CPS or the coils. I have read here on more than one occasion that problems have occurred when the engine gets warm the CPS starts acting up. After cooling down the engine will start up as if nothing happened, but the cycle will repeat itself. I would start at the CPS. If that does not solve the issue, I would move to the coils.
I think we all have thrown parts at the beasts in the hopes of curing the problem. I know I have. I have done it in the hopes of not having to send "Winston" to the boneyard. I was faced with this recently with a blown head gasket and a slipped liner discovered when I worked up the stones to do the HG repair myself. My liner was in the "up" position, meaning above the face of the block. I was able to get the liner back to flush with the block, HG repair completed. I did have to get an Indy LR guy to diagnose repair an electrical issue that came up after my work.
FWIW, the total cost of the repairs including the LR guy was $1400. At 174,500 miles I will be happy if I get another 35k+ out of "Winston". As you point out, take a shot at a fix vs. junk and a car payment (despite super low rates) seems to be the direction you are logically moving towards.
Happy Father's Day to all. Even if you are not the father of a human, you are in a sense a father: ROVERS ACT LIKE CHILDREN WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND AS THEY CANNOT TELL US WHAT IS WRONG
I think we all have thrown parts at the beasts in the hopes of curing the problem. I know I have. I have done it in the hopes of not having to send "Winston" to the boneyard. I was faced with this recently with a blown head gasket and a slipped liner discovered when I worked up the stones to do the HG repair myself. My liner was in the "up" position, meaning above the face of the block. I was able to get the liner back to flush with the block, HG repair completed. I did have to get an Indy LR guy to diagnose repair an electrical issue that came up after my work.
FWIW, the total cost of the repairs including the LR guy was $1400. At 174,500 miles I will be happy if I get another 35k+ out of "Winston". As you point out, take a shot at a fix vs. junk and a car payment (despite super low rates) seems to be the direction you are logically moving towards.
Happy Father's Day to all. Even if you are not the father of a human, you are in a sense a father: ROVERS ACT LIKE CHILDREN WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND AS THEY CANNOT TELL US WHAT IS WRONG
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adolfojbonilla (06-20-2021)
#13
Bad gas is a possibility, but IMO it is at the back of the pack in terms of the cause. I think your issues are with the CPS or the coils. I have read here on more than one occasion that problems have occurred when the engine gets warm the CPS starts acting up. After cooling down the engine will start up as if nothing happened, but the cycle will repeat itself. I would start at the CPS. If that does not solve the issue, I would move to the coils.
I think we all have thrown parts at the beasts in the hopes of curing the problem. I know I have. I have done it in the hopes of not having to send "Winston" to the boneyard. I was faced with this recently with a blown head gasket and a slipped liner discovered when I worked up the stones to do the HG repair myself. My liner was in the "up" position, meaning above the face of the block. I was able to get the liner back to flush with the block, HG repair completed. I did have to get an Indy LR guy to diagnose repair an electrical issue that came up after my work.
FWIW, the total cost of the repairs including the LR guy was $1400. At 174,500 miles I will be happy if I get another 35k+ out of "Winston". As you point out, take a shot at a fix vs. junk and a car payment (despite super low rates) seems to be the direction you are logically moving towards.
Happy Father's Day to all. Even if you are not the father of a human, you are in a sense a father: ROVERS ACT LIKE CHILDREN WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND AS THEY CANNOT TELL US WHAT IS WRONG
I think we all have thrown parts at the beasts in the hopes of curing the problem. I know I have. I have done it in the hopes of not having to send "Winston" to the boneyard. I was faced with this recently with a blown head gasket and a slipped liner discovered when I worked up the stones to do the HG repair myself. My liner was in the "up" position, meaning above the face of the block. I was able to get the liner back to flush with the block, HG repair completed. I did have to get an Indy LR guy to diagnose repair an electrical issue that came up after my work.
FWIW, the total cost of the repairs including the LR guy was $1400. At 174,500 miles I will be happy if I get another 35k+ out of "Winston". As you point out, take a shot at a fix vs. junk and a car payment (despite super low rates) seems to be the direction you are logically moving towards.
Happy Father's Day to all. Even if you are not the father of a human, you are in a sense a father: ROVERS ACT LIKE CHILDREN WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND AS THEY CANNOT TELL US WHAT IS WRONG
#14
..:: UPDATE ::..
In an attempt to try and solve the issue, I've ordered new Bosch coil packs, and CSP sensor, plus set of NGK spark plugs, and will also replace the valve cover gaskets while at it.
While I wait for these to arrive, I went to my truck to remove the battery and have it charged. I took a couple of pics of spark plugs to share with you guys and see if you see anything odd with them.
But I also saw that one of the spark plug wires (Blue 8mm Kingsborne) on passenger side not sure if cyl 2 or 4, is burnt on a couple of areas, actually to the point that heat hardened the protective cover and made it brittle and slashed, so definitely this must be an issue helping my truck not wanting to start.
I cannot understand why neither of the mechanics that had this truck for more than a week each would had not seen this, or told me about it.
At this point I should also buy a new set of wires.
See pics attached and let me know what you all think, thanks.
In an attempt to try and solve the issue, I've ordered new Bosch coil packs, and CSP sensor, plus set of NGK spark plugs, and will also replace the valve cover gaskets while at it.
While I wait for these to arrive, I went to my truck to remove the battery and have it charged. I took a couple of pics of spark plugs to share with you guys and see if you see anything odd with them.
But I also saw that one of the spark plug wires (Blue 8mm Kingsborne) on passenger side not sure if cyl 2 or 4, is burnt on a couple of areas, actually to the point that heat hardened the protective cover and made it brittle and slashed, so definitely this must be an issue helping my truck not wanting to start.
I cannot understand why neither of the mechanics that had this truck for more than a week each would had not seen this, or told me about it.
At this point I should also buy a new set of wires.
See pics attached and let me know what you all think, thanks.
#15
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adolfojbonilla (06-21-2021)
#16
Wires and plugs are exactly a year old, but what the heck, I guess is best to simply replace everything in the hopes for truck to finally fire up!
So far I've used 4 service tows, fortunately all free! ...but have thrown away nearly $500 bucks with these 2 mechanics, and truck stranded for nearly a month.
I'm hoping I can prove them wrong, and the issue ends up not being the timing chain, or replace the engine, as the last one suggested after robbing me nearly $500 in replacing the CSP sensor, which I bought for nearly $50, and running "other" diagnostics. Damn!
I should be working on my truck next Saturday, when hopefully all parts should have arrived; and my boss was kind enough to let me park it at my workplace, where I'll be able to do this myself.
Thanks again for your input.
#17
One of your codes was 0304, which is the #4 cylinder, so you may have partially solved you issues. The other codes like 0300 is a random misfire. That will pop up if one is misfiring as will 1300. I made it a point when I did my wires a while ago (Magnecor 8mm) to use the wire looms. It keeps them away from getting cooked. From you photos, it looks like the fabric heat shielding that goes around the SAI pipes leading to the block are gone. I replaced mine with this: It has worked really well.
Wrapped around the SAI pipes
The only issue you will have is that when you cut a section the stitching that fixes the velcro will be loose at the ends. I used a sewing machine to lock it down. A guy being able to use a sewing machine is the hallmark of someone who took home economics in public school for two reasons: 1) it was an easy "A" 2) The home econ teacher had a massive great rack
Wrapped around the SAI pipes
The only issue you will have is that when you cut a section the stitching that fixes the velcro will be loose at the ends. I used a sewing machine to lock it down. A guy being able to use a sewing machine is the hallmark of someone who took home economics in public school for two reasons: 1) it was an easy "A" 2) The home econ teacher had a massive great rack
Last edited by matt3502; 06-21-2021 at 09:35 PM.
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JUKE179r (06-30-2021)
#18
A couple of thoughts:
I'd prob cross the "friend" off your mechanic list. Doesn't sound like a timing chain issue. I mean it could be, but that's like saying a minor body ache is a terminal disease from a WebMD search. I suspect he's applying somewhat incorrect knowledge from other Land Rovers (the 5.0 V8's from 2010 to present) that have timing chain issues or come in with jumped sprockets and with motors that won't run. Not usually a D2 "go to" problem.
Also, the second mechanic who's immediately checking compression on what's basically no start condition engine. I think this is called "I want to sell you a new engine and the labor to put it in". Also if compression was poor (90) it would probably still start and just run poorly.
And to put the nail in their coffins, they both missed that arc'd and split wire...
I think you're on the right track, this is what I would do in this order
-- As others said, change CPS with Bosch. Note: Note condition of the somewhat difficult harness connector on the car side. Wires there could be frayed, coming apart, look for bad insulation or a problem with the connector.
-- Deffo need to change those plug wires. Yikes!
-- Charge battery up
Try to start the D2. If starts and runs well, good. If not:
-- Replace both coil packs with good brand / genuine ...
-- If you want to do your valve cover gaskets this is a good time
I'd then be looking at other things... like fuel pump /delivery (which has been verified, although... I'd probably recheck it), ECU or weird electrical problem, compression/timing issues/internal engine issues. Usually even with a loose chain and bad head gaskets they'll still... run poorly.
By the way, these trucks run basically OK on 7 cylinders, 6 cylinders, 5 cylinders. An untrained ear (or my ex who drove an 03 for months saying "it won't go above 45 on the highway") might not even realize that it's misfiring until you see the chk engine light. They don't run well when cylinders start dropping out due to ignition issue, but they run. So that's why I think for you it's still CPS or one or both coil packs.
Good luck keep us posted !
I'd prob cross the "friend" off your mechanic list. Doesn't sound like a timing chain issue. I mean it could be, but that's like saying a minor body ache is a terminal disease from a WebMD search. I suspect he's applying somewhat incorrect knowledge from other Land Rovers (the 5.0 V8's from 2010 to present) that have timing chain issues or come in with jumped sprockets and with motors that won't run. Not usually a D2 "go to" problem.
Also, the second mechanic who's immediately checking compression on what's basically no start condition engine. I think this is called "I want to sell you a new engine and the labor to put it in". Also if compression was poor (90) it would probably still start and just run poorly.
And to put the nail in their coffins, they both missed that arc'd and split wire...
I think you're on the right track, this is what I would do in this order
-- As others said, change CPS with Bosch. Note: Note condition of the somewhat difficult harness connector on the car side. Wires there could be frayed, coming apart, look for bad insulation or a problem with the connector.
-- Deffo need to change those plug wires. Yikes!
-- Charge battery up
Try to start the D2. If starts and runs well, good. If not:
-- Replace both coil packs with good brand / genuine ...
-- If you want to do your valve cover gaskets this is a good time
I'd then be looking at other things... like fuel pump /delivery (which has been verified, although... I'd probably recheck it), ECU or weird electrical problem, compression/timing issues/internal engine issues. Usually even with a loose chain and bad head gaskets they'll still... run poorly.
By the way, these trucks run basically OK on 7 cylinders, 6 cylinders, 5 cylinders. An untrained ear (or my ex who drove an 03 for months saying "it won't go above 45 on the highway") might not even realize that it's misfiring until you see the chk engine light. They don't run well when cylinders start dropping out due to ignition issue, but they run. So that's why I think for you it's still CPS or one or both coil packs.
Good luck keep us posted !
Last edited by nashvegas; 06-22-2021 at 12:09 AM.
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adolfojbonilla (06-29-2021)
#19
My 03 ran out of gas about two seconds after the low fuel light popped on and needle above red by a 1/16 of an inch. Had code reader hooked up when it died, checked them...because..."it couldn't be out of fuel"...bunch of misfire codes. Cranked over strong and never tried to start.
Dumped five gallons in it and drove home...
Dumped five gallons in it and drove home...
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adolfojbonilla (06-29-2021)
#20
If doing new wires you might as well just do new coil packs and save the headache of reaching back there twice. If you have a decent air compressor handy and front tires have no dry rot (just in decent shape) I would strongly recommend deflating them. You'd be surprised how much easier things get with the front end tilted to the front some and a few inches lower, especially on a lifted truck.
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adolfojbonilla (06-29-2021)