Throttle Body Heater Gasket Repair
Three Wheeling
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 53
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
No it wont freeze wide open, but it will freeze in whatever position it is in when it freezes.
You say it snot big deal, until you tap the brake to turn the cruise off and you dont slow down, or you try for that panic stop and you keep barreling on at 70mph.
Its no big deal until it is.
You wear your seat belt but you've never been in a accident, so do you stop wearing it? Even if it was not law would you still wear it?
If you could buy a brand new car with no airbag would you?
You say it snot big deal, until you tap the brake to turn the cruise off and you dont slow down, or you try for that panic stop and you keep barreling on at 70mph.
Its no big deal until it is.
You wear your seat belt but you've never been in a accident, so do you stop wearing it? Even if it was not law would you still wear it?
If you could buy a brand new car with no airbag would you?
Here's the first point from the report's conclusion:
Contrary to many reports and theories in the industry, the icing test results summarized in this paper indicate that ice adhesion to the surfaces ... is a minor contributor to the valve icing phenomenon. The major contributor to the icing problem is the compressive stress of the ice at the gap between the valve and bore.
I live in a very humid place where it gets very cold in the winter, we have freezing fog, freezing rain, snow so heavy 6" of it will cave in a roof on a house.
Driving around town its not going to happen, it happens when you drive for extended periods on the expressway in this type of weather.
It is also common on small engine airplanes and it can clog the air tube not letting air into the engine thus causing a stall.
There was a guy on "CarTalk" a few years ago, he and his son were skiing in Northern Michigan, they were from IL, had the cruise on, tapped brake to slow down and car keep on going, shifted to neutral, engine started to rev, they slowed down, engine returned to normal.
I have heard about it from many people, I have experienced it, I have driven in frozen fog for hours and arrived with my truck (not my Rover, I used to be a truck driver) covered in ice.
I have also experienced fuel gelling (thats where the diesel fuel gets so cold it thickens to the point that it cannot be pumped through the fuel filter and clogs it starving the engine of fuel, all you can do it change the fuel filter on the side of the road or have the truck towed to a warm place).
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 57
From: Queens, NYC
Well, i cant make you believe anything you don't want to. But its there for a reason and i hope that nothing ever happens to you or anyone because of this cheap cheap decision of yours. Temperatures are changing all over the world and there is no telling what this winter will bring your way. Just keep that in mind and always remember those small little changes you made and if the temps do get colder in the areas that all you rebels live in the possibilities are there no matter how big or small they are. Be safe!
I never said that throttle plate icing never happens (in fact, the first two words in my post were that "I agree", maybe you just glossed over it?), but in many climates it's unnecessary.
Spike, yes, ice forms at higher temperatures when the air is moving, however, even without the TB heater plate, the intake plenum and throttle body are going to be substantially warmer than ambient due to conductive heating from the engine, even in colder temperatures during extended highway cruise. In the cases in the SHO community where TB icing has been witnessed (bypassing the TB heater on the SHO is a common occurrence for it's own reasons), it is typically in a high humidity environment where the ambient was below 20F, and during an extended highway cruise.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,533
Likes: 4
Ld t[QUOTE=Racer X;341783]Well, lucky for everyone involved that I no longer drive that car in weather remotely resembling winter, isn't it?
Indeed it is a good thing for everyone involved that you no longer operate your vehicle that way.
I never said that throttle plate icing never happens (in fact, the first two words in my post were that "I agree", maybe you just glossed over it?), but in many climates it's unnecessary.
Just because there are lots of places that don't see huge accumulation of snowfall or ice or extended periods of Below freezing temps doesn't mean it wont happen this year does it? . No it doesn't, the weather patterns are changing and in the right time and place this could happen. So no matter what its cheap to fix or replace & it should be fixed with correct part.
The altered vehicle could be sold and you forget to tell new buyer about the bypass they drive across Illinois/Indiana/ Iowa/ Nebraska/ Michigan and lots of other states there throttle freezes and they panic and die and your responsible. Say the original owner bypassed this and died then truck was sold at auction and there was some guy that likes the truck buys it but doesn't know the small things like this matter drives home pick up the family takes them for a ride throttle freezes and family dies. Its just not a good practice for people to get into.
Make sense yet?
Indeed it is a good thing for everyone involved that you no longer operate your vehicle that way.
I never said that throttle plate icing never happens (in fact, the first two words in my post were that "I agree", maybe you just glossed over it?), but in many climates it's unnecessary.
Just because there are lots of places that don't see huge accumulation of snowfall or ice or extended periods of Below freezing temps doesn't mean it wont happen this year does it? . No it doesn't, the weather patterns are changing and in the right time and place this could happen. So no matter what its cheap to fix or replace & it should be fixed with correct part.
The altered vehicle could be sold and you forget to tell new buyer about the bypass they drive across Illinois/Indiana/ Iowa/ Nebraska/ Michigan and lots of other states there throttle freezes and they panic and die and your responsible. Say the original owner bypassed this and died then truck was sold at auction and there was some guy that likes the truck buys it but doesn't know the small things like this matter drives home pick up the family takes them for a ride throttle freezes and family dies. Its just not a good practice for people to get into.
Make sense yet?
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 57
From: Queens, NYC
[QUOTE=lr2001silver;341793]Ld t
Oh my God, you're right. I'm going to replace that heater block on my SHO right now!
No, I'm not. If and when I sell this SHO, it's going to a SHO Club member or an enthusiast, who will get a very detailed list of all the modifications done to the car, including the TB heater block bypass. This new one I just finished building managed to make it this far without seeing winter or accumulating any rust (which is unheard of for a Ford living in the northeast for 18 years), and I've countless hours into it. It's not going to some HS kid as his first car, nor is it going to anyone who will use it as their daily during the winter.
(To clarify, the engine and drivetrain in this new SHO came from my previous SHO, missing TB heater and all)
As far as the bypass, there are much, much worse kludges on used cars out there than a missing throttle body heater, which is why you should always do an extensive inspection on any used car you buy.
This one was done by a well known Ford performance specialist, on a supercharged SHO, and driven by a new owner 16 hours across country, only to be discovered after searching for the reason why the engine leaned out and sustained some damage.
This fuel line passed within an inch of an exhaust manifold.
In my eyes anyway, kludges like this are far worse than a missing heater, and there are cars like this and worse all over the country. Maybe it's a perspective thing, I dunno.
If it makes you feel any better, the heater place on my Disco is getting a new block and gasket, and new lines in the next couple of weeks. This vehicle will see cold humid weather operation, and will need it's heater.
Well, lucky for everyone involved that I no longer drive that car in weather remotely resembling winter, isn't it?
Indeed it is a good thing for everyone involved that you no longer operate your vehicle that way.
I never said that throttle plate icing never happens (in fact, the first two words in my post were that "I agree", maybe you just glossed over it?), but in many climates it's unnecessary.
Just because there are lots of places that don't see huge accumulation of snowfall or ice or extended periods of Below freezing temps doesn't mean it wont happen this year does it? . No it doesn't, the weather patterns are changing and in the right time and place this could happen. So no matter what its cheap to fix or replace & it should be fixed with correct part.
The altered vehicle could be sold and you forget to tell new buyer about the bypass they drive across Illinois/Indiana/ Iowa/ Nebraska/ Michigan and lots of other states there throttle freezes and they panic and die and your responsible. Say the original owner bypassed this and died then truck was sold at auction and there was some guy that likes the truck buys it but doesn't know the small things like this matter drives home pick up the family takes them for a ride throttle freezes and family dies. Its just not a good practice for people to get into.
Make sense yet?
Indeed it is a good thing for everyone involved that you no longer operate your vehicle that way.
I never said that throttle plate icing never happens (in fact, the first two words in my post were that "I agree", maybe you just glossed over it?), but in many climates it's unnecessary.
Just because there are lots of places that don't see huge accumulation of snowfall or ice or extended periods of Below freezing temps doesn't mean it wont happen this year does it? . No it doesn't, the weather patterns are changing and in the right time and place this could happen. So no matter what its cheap to fix or replace & it should be fixed with correct part.
The altered vehicle could be sold and you forget to tell new buyer about the bypass they drive across Illinois/Indiana/ Iowa/ Nebraska/ Michigan and lots of other states there throttle freezes and they panic and die and your responsible. Say the original owner bypassed this and died then truck was sold at auction and there was some guy that likes the truck buys it but doesn't know the small things like this matter drives home pick up the family takes them for a ride throttle freezes and family dies. Its just not a good practice for people to get into.
Make sense yet?
No, I'm not. If and when I sell this SHO, it's going to a SHO Club member or an enthusiast, who will get a very detailed list of all the modifications done to the car, including the TB heater block bypass. This new one I just finished building managed to make it this far without seeing winter or accumulating any rust (which is unheard of for a Ford living in the northeast for 18 years), and I've countless hours into it. It's not going to some HS kid as his first car, nor is it going to anyone who will use it as their daily during the winter.
(To clarify, the engine and drivetrain in this new SHO came from my previous SHO, missing TB heater and all)
As far as the bypass, there are much, much worse kludges on used cars out there than a missing throttle body heater, which is why you should always do an extensive inspection on any used car you buy.
This one was done by a well known Ford performance specialist, on a supercharged SHO, and driven by a new owner 16 hours across country, only to be discovered after searching for the reason why the engine leaned out and sustained some damage.
This fuel line passed within an inch of an exhaust manifold.
In my eyes anyway, kludges like this are far worse than a missing heater, and there are cars like this and worse all over the country. Maybe it's a perspective thing, I dunno.
If it makes you feel any better, the heater place on my Disco is getting a new block and gasket, and new lines in the next couple of weeks. This vehicle will see cold humid weather operation, and will need it's heater.
Overlanding
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
This is the repair I did on a 2003 DII. I bypassed mine but the owner wanted the correct repair. This 2003 DII has only been service by LRNA and LRSA. I am the first untrained and un-certified person to touch this DII. It just got the full 60k mile service done a few months ago. It is in immaculate condition.....except the throttle body gasket. So....
If your throttle body heater looks like this
and you are loosing coolant, do the following repair.
This is without removing the throttle body.
1. Remove the air intake arm. Open the cap of the coolant tank to relieve pressure.
2. Order part Throttle Body Heater Plate Kit (Genuine Part # MGM000010) | Land Rover And Range Rover Fuel System Parts
3. Remove the crank case ventilation tube
4. Depending on the position of the clamps on coolant lines going to the plate, you can remove them now or later. I could only do the driver side first.
5. Using a 5.5mm 1/4 inch drive socket, remove the two rear plate screws.
6. Disconnect and set aside the vacuum lines
7. Remove the front plate screw
8. Take a rubber glove and cut off one of the fingers and cover the vent pipe for the valve cover
9. There is a good chance that after removing the screws, the plate will still be "stuck" onto the throttle body. Take a screw driver and lightly tap the plate until it falls off. Some coolant will be dispensed and some may be under pressure.
10. Inspect the inside of the throttle body heater plate. Still think Dexcool is safe?
I used two pliers to hold the plate steady and remove the coolant lines.
11. Comparison of the new and old plate
12. Clean up everything. I used a wire brush and mild solution.
13. Clean the underside of the throttle body too
14. Install new plate and position the clamps in such a way that you can remove them easier next time.
15. Take the gasket and put a LIGHT bead of Permatex right stuff GREY. Both sides (that is what I used to seal the t-case swap and no leaks!!)
More pics
http://picasaweb.google.com/jycsalas...yHeaterRepair#
If your throttle body heater looks like this
and you are loosing coolant, do the following repair.
This is without removing the throttle body.
1. Remove the air intake arm. Open the cap of the coolant tank to relieve pressure.
2. Order part Throttle Body Heater Plate Kit (Genuine Part # MGM000010) | Land Rover And Range Rover Fuel System Parts
3. Remove the crank case ventilation tube
4. Depending on the position of the clamps on coolant lines going to the plate, you can remove them now or later. I could only do the driver side first.
5. Using a 5.5mm 1/4 inch drive socket, remove the two rear plate screws.
6. Disconnect and set aside the vacuum lines
7. Remove the front plate screw
8. Take a rubber glove and cut off one of the fingers and cover the vent pipe for the valve cover
9. There is a good chance that after removing the screws, the plate will still be "stuck" onto the throttle body. Take a screw driver and lightly tap the plate until it falls off. Some coolant will be dispensed and some may be under pressure.
10. Inspect the inside of the throttle body heater plate. Still think Dexcool is safe?
I used two pliers to hold the plate steady and remove the coolant lines.
11. Comparison of the new and old plate
12. Clean up everything. I used a wire brush and mild solution.
13. Clean the underside of the throttle body too
14. Install new plate and position the clamps in such a way that you can remove them easier next time.
15. Take the gasket and put a LIGHT bead of Permatex right stuff GREY. Both sides (that is what I used to seal the t-case swap and no leaks!!)
More pics
http://picasaweb.google.com/jycsalas...yHeaterRepair#
Many thanks
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 57
From: Queens, NYC
Either use a plastic scraper and gasket remover, or use a very fine scotch-brite roloc disc in a drill or a die-grinder.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 342
Likes: 4
From: North Jersey
By the way, I'd be happy to host the images. It seems the ones from this thread are no longer available (perhaps bandwidth overage?) I use Amazon S3 and have tons of space for real cheap, so I'd be more than willing to host the images on it. Only costs me a few cents per month.
(This is not an ad.)
-Anthony
(This is not an ad.)
-Anthony
